When the discipline of sports intersects with the spiritual fervor of faith, remarkable transformations occur. John Carlson, the former Notre Dame standout and NFL tight end, joins our heartfelt conversation to share how these two worlds have shaped his life and vision. As we unravel John's story, from his early days dreaming on high school fields to the trials and triumphs within the NFL, we witness a man whose identity has been as much carved by his athletic endeavors as it has been anchored in his profound faith.
Sitting across from John, you can't help but be moved by the leadership lessons he's learned and now imparts to the young athletes under his tutelage. From the importance of service and sacrifice to the parallels between athletic dedication and spiritual growth, his insights offer a playbook for anyone striving to lead with intention and integrity. This isn't just a tale of sporting achievements; it's a testament to living a life steeped in purpose, whether you're on the field or guiding others towards their own paths.
Our episode rounds out with John's reflections on coaching high school sports and the wisdom he shares about the value of embracing the journey, not just the destination. It's a conversation that transcends the game, touching on the humility of the Christmas story and the unwavering dedication of the apostle Paul, culminating in a message that encourages us all to live intentionally for Christ. Dive into this episode and witness how a life dedicated to faith and sports can inspire leadership, transformation, and a heartening vision for the future.
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When the discipline of sports intersects with the spiritual fervor of faith, remarkable transformations occur. John Carlson, the former Notre Dame standout and NFL tight end, joins our heartfelt conversation to share how these two worlds have shaped his life and vision. As we unravel John's story, from his early days dreaming on high school fields to the trials and triumphs within the NFL, we witness a man whose identity has been as much carved by his athletic endeavors as it has been anchored in his profound faith.
Sitting across from John, you can't help but be moved by the leadership lessons he's learned and now imparts to the young athletes under his tutelage. From the importance of service and sacrifice to the parallels between athletic dedication and spiritual growth, his insights offer a playbook for anyone striving to lead with intention and integrity. This isn't just a tale of sporting achievements; it's a testament to living a life steeped in purpose, whether you're on the field or guiding others towards their own paths.
Our episode rounds out with John's reflections on coaching high school sports and the wisdom he shares about the value of embracing the journey, not just the destination. It's a conversation that transcends the game, touching on the humility of the Christmas story and the unwavering dedication of the apostle Paul, culminating in a message that encourages us all to live intentionally for Christ. Dive into this episode and witness how a life dedicated to faith and sports can inspire leadership, transformation, and a heartening vision for the future.
JOIN OUR NEW ONLINE LEARNING PLATFORM!
ENTER CODE - 75ULC2023 for 75% off!
Hello and welcome to the brand new American Reformation Podcast. We long to see the wider American Christian Church fall more in love with Jesus by learning from the practices of the early church and other eras of discipleship multiplication. We want to hear from you, make sure you comment and leave a review, wherever you're watching or listening, to tell us what God is doing in your life or how you feel about today's conversation. Lord, have your way in us. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the American Reformation Podcast, tim Allman. Here I pray wherever you're taking this podcast in. The joy of the Lord is your strength. He is your leader and Lord, the lover of your soul, and he has beautiful things in store for you and for us. Today, as I get the privilege to hang out with my brother from another mother, he is John Carlson. He got to coach this last year together as the head coach.
Speaker 2:John is the first year head coach at Gilbert Christian High School. He's going to share a little bit of that coaching journey. But he's way more than that. I'm married to Danielle, a father of four kids. He played also. He's going to tell a little bit of his athletic journey today. Played at you may have heard of the university Notre Dame, and then seven some years or so in the NFL and we're going to hear a little bit of that. And he's also the owner shop owner of Christian Brothers Automotive. If you're in the Valley and I know you guys go beyond the Valley with Christian Brothers he's leading a team. We may get into some leadership conversations, some culture conversations today. But before we do any of that, john, how you doing, man? Thanks for hanging.
Speaker 3:I'm doing great. Tim, Thank you for having me today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, this is a joy. So I have a question how are you praying for Reformation in the American Christian Church?
Speaker 3:You know, that feels like a really big question to me. It is, and I've been thinking and praying about it and I think I've paired it down a little bit to student athletes, I think, have a really unique opportunity. Christian student athletes have a unique opportunity to do things. I think I've been praying that these athletes would have a renewed sense of the opportunity they have to share the gospel and to model the gospel through sport. So that's number one, and then the second one is a lot of these athletes that we worked with this year and that we've observed in high schools and in the college ranks. They invest a lot of time and energy and the commitment level that they have to their sport is significant. There's a striving after the sport and I think there should be a renewed. My prayer is that there's a renewed sense in these young Christian athletes that they should be striving after their faith and running after Jesus in the same way that they're pursuing their sport. So those are the two things that stick out to me.
Speaker 2:That's so good, john. That is such a hard thing for young men, I would say, and young women as well student athletes to wrap their heads around, as they're young and they're trying to kind of prove prove themselves and really find their identity in the sport, being the best they can possibly be. But then also recognizing we talked about this a lot this past year in our devotion time recognizing the approval of the Father, the identity as a beloved Son of the King is, is the catalyst. The freedom that comes with your identity in Christ is the catalyst. So what did sports teach you? Just give a little bit of your story too. What leadership lessons did the Lord teach you in your many years as an athlete? And you didn't. You were a tennis player. Right, you're a really good tennis player.
Speaker 2:Your dad is a big tennis player also basketball player, which was really basketball is kind of your first love. But then God, kind of he gave you the body, John, for football at a very high level. So what two or three principles did sports teach you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I grew up in a home of teachers and coaches. Both of my parents were high school teachers. My dad was a football coach, a basketball coach and a tennis coach, so I grew up around sports. It's something that, as a family, we've always done together and something that was very central to who we were, and there were a lot of lessons. I have an older brother who I observed going through being coached by my dad and playing high school sports at a very high level three years in front of me, so I got to see how he handled that and then he went on and played college basketball or in a scholarship. My older sister and my younger sister both played sports as well in high school and my younger sister played in college.
Speaker 3:You know leadership lessons, I think you know the biggest one that sticks out to me is the sense that leadership is service and this agape love, self sacrificial love. You know that that's referenced in scripture. Every great leader I've ever been around as an athlete starting with, you know, my older brother, alex when I was, when I was young and then going into college people that I observed that were very. They were effective leaders. They elevated the people around them. They were willing to sacrifice their own accolades, their own stats, their own time. You know it's inconvenient to lead, it's difficult to lead, and the people that I've observed and experienced that they do it really well. They're willing to sacrifice for the good of the team. So you know, I think that's number one.
Speaker 3:The second kind of a second lesson that you know, thinking back and preparing for this leadership is a daily commitment to the it's I related to football practice. Like there's a daily rhythm to developing skills and being effective at what you do, whether it's blocking as an offensive lineman or it's catching the ball as a receiver or throwing the ball as a quarterback or anything on the defensive side of the ball their fundamental skills. And if you're seeking certain outcomes on the football field, you got to, you got to put the work in on a daily basis. And I think the same is true in leadership. There's a daily rhythm of things that need to get done and I think, from a leader's perspective, internally, like you need to prepare yourself to be to serve, to pour yourself out, you have to do certain things so that you're equipped physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually to do that on a daily basis. And then, just when you interact with people that you're trying to lead. There are daily rhythms that you got to do. You got to do those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, john, that's it. Let's just pause on that. Like football, practice isn't necessarily fun, right, I mean there are parts of it that are fun, right, you and I, especially coaching and we had there are moments of fun, but, like early on in the year, coaching football in Phoenix Arizona, it's like 110, 115 degrees. Even if we're waiting for the kids, like they're throwing on their pads or getting out there. Oh, my goodness, maybe there's a part of me I'd like to. I wish I was playing a video game right now. Some of the kids could say, or whatever. But no, we're teaching them the lesson that life is beautiful, life is also discipline oriented, and it's doing things for the benefit of the team that are not always fun. Anything more to add, though, about the, because, unless you played football, you don't really know until you know what it's like with that helmet on and just sweating your face off. So talk about the discomfort even of practice with football, john.
Speaker 3:Yeah, football is a unique animal because you play one game a week and there's a lot of practice that goes into preparing for that one game and most of practice. To your point, tim, it is not necessarily fun. The heat this year was, and it's always hot in Arizona in July, august, september, but it was it was extremely hot this year. We, you know, having a small team, we had a lot of guys that played both ways in the game. So the challenge of being conditioned well enough and to to just push through pain and cramping and discomfort in games is is really challenging. But the daily work required in football isn't isn't really all that much fun A lot of the time, compared to something like basketball.
Speaker 3:I loved playing basketball growing up and I still would if I was physically able. It's just a great sport, it's fun and most of practice is playing the game. Maybe you work on shooting or shooting free throws or playing some defense and there's always some scrimmage, scrimmaging involved in practice. So you're really playing the game and it's a blast. Football is different but I think that through that challenge, you know there's there's a, there's a biblical message there of the trial and how growth occurs and how teams come together and and there's I think there's so many parallels between the struggles and football in life and I think that there's a lot of value in that. There is fun in that. It's a different type of fun.
Speaker 3:There's, there's a sense that you can derive joy from this struggle, but it's more of a choosing it's. It's choosing joy. It's not happiness because of circumstance. It's hey, it's hot, it's hard. We're conditioning it to end of practice. You know, whatever it is, this is difficult and I'm choosing to engage in this because it matters and I'm doing it to serve each other. You know the teammates and through that, I think it, you can create a really special experience for each individual player and for the team collectively. So those are the things that I think, that I think that's where the real value is in playing football.
Speaker 2:Well, in your your story, John was not. I love listening to athletes that make it at the highest level or whatever. It wasn't a straight line Like there was a lot of. I don't know exactly how this is going to work out, jesus. I mean, tell your story at Notre Dame and then just kind of the early story of getting into the NFL and how you just found yourself in these, like I've prepared and things. But this is very unusual and am I? Am I prepared? And even if you would lean into that question of that identity, that identity piece that was being found in in sports and some of the shadow sides of sports as well, just tell a little bit more of your your story pressing through, struggle, sure.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, as I mentioned earlier, I grew up around sports so I got to observe these high school athletes. I idolized these high school athletes that played for my dad when I was in elementary school and Ken, and grew up and that was my. I really looked forward to playing football on Friday nights in front of the home home fans and, you know, playing in a packed basketball gym in the winter. And tennis I was not a good tennis player. I played doubles. It was fun, I enjoyed it, it was a way to compete and I lifted a lot of weights in the springtime. So I loved it, but I wasn't all that good at it. But you know, I looked up, I looked forward to that time and then when I got there, it was. You know I was really blessed to have a group of classmates, teammates that we'd been together for a long time. So we ended up we won three state championships in basketball my senior year. That same winter season, our wrestling team won a state championship, which is unique because it's the same group of athletes, just small school. So it was impressive. What? Additionally, there are a lot of kids from that school that ended up going on and and doing really significant things in their careers. So so that that experience was it was a blessing in so many ways. There was a high commitment to excellence and to team and my dad really was was, you know, that voice in my head of this is what it means to be a great teammate and this is what the commitment level is needed to achieve excellence and and I got to see and experience that first hand. So that's kind of how I grew up as I got.
Speaker 3:You know, my dream as a, as a youngster, was to play basketball at Duke. That was kind of Christian Leitner, you know, christian Knight Knight. Christian Leitner is a polarizing figure in some ways. I thought he was just a tremendous athlete and basketball player and and competitor. So that was my dream. I could never really shoot the basketball that wasn't my skill set, and six, five power forwards don't really make it at Duke. So my body got built, gave me a body that was more suited to football. So as I got midway through high school I realized that playing college football was a legitimate opportunity and I loved football just differently than basketball. And I realized too that I would have a really unique chance to to earn a scholarship and go to school.
Speaker 3:That number one. I wouldn't have gotten into Notre Dame academically without football. There was some assistance there and you know, did well once I got there and took a lot of work to do that. But you know that and then just being able to afford to go to school like that was was a blessing. So I had that chance to do that. We had a 25 person class. I was probably number 25 out of.
Speaker 3:Out of that list In front of me, greg Olson is a tight end. He's a commentator now but he was a tremendous tight end in the NFL for a long time. He actually went to Notre Dame first and he was. He was there. He was at one of the top recruits. Brady Quinn was quarterback. We had I think we had nine guys from that class that ended up playing in the NFL. But when I got there I was the low man on the totem pole and there were probably there were six or seven tight ends in front of me.
Speaker 3:Quickly I learned that I was not ready to play division one college football when I got there, so spent that first season as a a red shirt practice squad type player, played against the defensive end named Justin Tuck who went on and made multiple, won a couple Super Bowls with the Giants, made Pro Bowl a bunch of times. Great man, great leader, Tremendous, tremendous football player, all-american. So he beat me up every day in practice and picked me up after he knocked me down. But I learned a lot in that. First, that first season playing against the starting defense, and I gained 15 pounds in the weight room that year because it was my first time in that type of weight training Setting and they, they forced, fed me. So I ate a lot, I lifted a lot of weights, practiced a lot of calories.
Speaker 2:John pause right there how many calories? Were you eating a day?
Speaker 3:I can't even tell you in college I didn't really track it. The strength coach yeah, but just go eat 50 pancakes and you know a dozen eggs like Nikki I there's no, I can eat that much, but it was a lot, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, keep going, yeah into into your first year of playing after the red shirt year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it was really a gradual thing. I had a couple really good players in front of me and Anthony Fazzano was a tight end who played 13 years in the NFL. He was only one year in front of me so took a couple years. I think that my second year I played a little bit of special teams. Third year played a lot of special teams and was the number two tight end behind Anthony.
Speaker 3:And it really wasn't until my fourth year, my true senior year, that had an opportunity to start and had Charlie Weiss had come in Tyrone Mullingham as a coach when I got there. Great man, great leader. Unfortunately we didn't win enough games for for him to stay there and then they brought in Charlie Weiss with his system. I learned a lot from Charlie and his offensive system and he used the tight ends a bunch. So it was really Fortuna's timing is a blessing that he came in when he did. And then Anthony left with the year of eligibility, left when went and was drafted by the Cowboys in the second round. So he opened a door for me to play. Charlie was in and use the tight ends. Brady Quinn was a senior. We had a bunch of weapons that you know.
Speaker 3:So things, things happened in a way that I Couldn't a plan any better, you know, and had they not, you know, god's timing allowed me to have had those opportunities and catch a bunch of footballs that year. But it's a real gradual process to be, I think, prepared for that opportunity and even you know, you know there's no guarantee that that was gonna happen. I wasn't thinking about the NFL even up until that that fourth year. It was kind of midway through that year where I realized, you know, I may have a chance to play in the NFL. So it was pretty gradual thing.
Speaker 2:Let's stop. Let's stop right there at this point. Where is Jesus in John Carlson's life?
Speaker 3:Jesus is that Jesus was not essential in my life at that point in time. So I was raised in a Lutheran home, went to Lutheran Church growing up, went through confirmation, did those things. So I knew, you know, god was, was working on my heart from a young age. I had great pastor and great church that I went to growing up. You know all those things but the and and you know we've kind of danced around this a little bit but this identity piece I love sports growing up and while I knew who God was, jesus, I hadn't surrendered to Jesus. I was pursuing sports. I was finding, I was seeking, you know the things that as a young man you're looking for identity and validation and achievement, and you know love. In some ways I was seeking those things. I didn't consciously know that, probably, but I, looking back, I was looking to, I was, I was turning the basketball and football and success in school and those things for you know the God-sized hole in my life. So that Trend continued into college and I would say that I I lived For myself. I think my parents really set an example of what it means to live an ethical life and to be how you know what, how you should treat other people and and standards that are biblical standards. But you know, the root of it for me was not Christ.
Speaker 3:So that played out through college and Continued on Into the NFL and thankfully I was drafted by the Seahawks and there's a guy named Matt Hasselback that was quarterback there and there's there's team chaplain named Carl Payne. And as soon as I got to Seattle I realized, man, I want to be like that guy. Matt, great football player, you know, had had made multiple pro bowls, had they've been at the Super Bowl a couple years before, didn't win the game, but but got there, had a great team. It's all the, all the football things. But just, I saw the type of husband, father, he was the type of teammate he was. You talk about Agape, sacrificial love, this guy Open his home to everybody. He, but you know it, anyone who came in, anyone was through the locker room and myself included, he'd invite us to Bible study.
Speaker 3:So that was the game changer for me and that was when that this, the shift Started in my life in terms of you know where, where is my identity placed? It wasn't an immediate shift, it was gradual, but Matt invited me to go to Bible study. That my rookie year in Seattle. It was through that that I found saving faith in Christ and and and that was the first time you know, as a kid growing up in a Lutheran church and going through confirmation, like we looked at scripture and, but it, it, it didn't, it didn't hit home to me, I didn't engage with it in a way that was At the same level of commitment that I engaged in sports. So this was, this was when, when God pursued me and that the transformation started to occur through that Bible study with the Seahawks.
Speaker 2:That's so good. That's so good, john, just be around, be around the word. I, you know, we kind of we kind of connected with your background. I'm a Lutheran pastor, obviously, and you kind of have this background in in Lutheranism. And now I, you know you're connected to kind of an evangelical congregation here in town and sometimes Lutherans will hear words like I'm Surrender or choose and maybe make an immediate, immediate value statement over over that. But here's, here's what I've discovered and I'm gonna, I'm gonna put on my kind of Lutheran conservative Lens to hopefully open up our eyes to to what God is, is up to we're.
Speaker 2:We're really focused on passive faith, john, that you can't do anything to earn the grace of God and that you're, you're like an infant right, and this is why we practice infant baptism in various facts. You can't do anything and you're conceived in sin, you're far from God. And so God from the, your youngest of ages, he says you're mine, you're my beloved, never forget your core identity in in me. And I think Lutherans, we preach and we teach along those lines and yet at the same time, I don't know, and this is the discipleship conversation I think, in our, in our tradition in general, we, we miss out, maybe, on the Holy Spirit, seasonal invitations into a deeper, really revelation of how passive we are in In this thing called the faith journey and how desperately we're loved by God and how, as Jesus had this this is my beloved son and whom I I love. I'm pleased with him. Listen to him. If Jesus needed that Declaration from the father, ratified through the sending of the Holy Spirit, how much more do we need that, that gift of the Holy Spirit? And so we?
Speaker 2:I've been Theologically wrestling with this since the conversation with a local pastor a couple weeks ago the Holy Spirit in us, creating and sustaining faith. This is the in this, it for us, this is, this is baptism and, at the same time, the Holy Spirit resting upon us, covering us, holding us and allowing us. And you're in your, because now you have the kingdom lens, you have the Holy Spirit lens to see that God didn't waste any of your experiences and that he was near to you the entire time. And then you have these Revelation moments when you're like it's like I've been born again. You know it's like now, something like.
Speaker 2:You know the scales of unbelief have once again, and this is daily repentance and contrition. You know we need the scales of unbelief to fall off our eyes Over and over again, to have the eyes of wonder to see. Oh, my goodness, god, you are at work in my life, jesus, thank you for the cross and for the empty tomb and and it helped me by the power of your spirit to live a life I'll use the word you used Surrendered to your call upon my, upon my life to live is sacrificially, selflessly, because you, jesus, have sacrificed and selflessly given yourself, yourself. For me, that is the call of discipleship and praise. Be to God for that revelation that he gave you through another brother in Christ who had discovered the Jesus way.
Speaker 2:And I think it's unusual. You know, I athletes, there's a lot of Christian athletes, I don't hear this the wrong, wrong way, but you have so much going on, it's so it's unusual to find one who lives so Sacrificially and selflessly, even in a game like football. That's me, me, me. It can't even be talk about, talk about, as I kind of go off any response to that, because I want to go off in another, in another direction, but any response to that Kind of Lutheran journey and this like new revelation of Jesus. What's resting on your heart as you heard me just talk about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I come to what you just said and and some of the deeper theology of the Christian faith with a lot of humility, and I Know that in my experience you so I went through infant baptism and I also was baptized after I made a faith profession when I was an adult. And you know, I know there's some theological differences in those two acts, but I, this crisis at the center of it and what I experienced later in life with what I described was a Identity shift. I experienced a different set of, you know, a different intentionality around how I desired to live, and it's still messy and all of a sudden fell short of the Gory God and I'm one of those, all for sure. But I think the pursuit changed and the intention changed at that time. So, theologically, what happened and what, how that works? You know that's maybe above my pay grade, but I know that there was a shift in the way that that I started living at that point.
Speaker 3:Yeah and you know. So that's.
Speaker 2:What? The way I would. Theologically, the words I would use as repentance is metanoia. It was an about face. Yeah, for you right, I was going in one direction. The Holy Spirit stopped me. He put me, he put his word in front of me, he put Jesus followers in front of me and I couldn't help but turn around and say Jesus, your way, not my, not my way. That's just the daily invitation of repentance. That's completely accurate. Yeah, praise God, okay, what would?
Speaker 2:What would surprise people? Because you had an experience in Seattle that was just fantastic, and Then not throw the Vikings under the bus, but locker rooms can be. You and I were talking about the differences of an NFL locker room and the culture that was created in Seattle and then again a different type of culture in and showing due respect to these different organizations. But but you really enjoyed your time in in Seattle and even even get us behind the curtain. For those NFL guys and gals who are out there, what is it an NFL? What would surprise people about an NFL locker room and the culture that can be created there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think it. You know it's. It's difficult to say what would surprise people, because I lived it and Daniel and I my you know my wife Daniel we, we've just we, we experienced this. The locker room in the NFL isn't that much different than the locker room in college and in high school. I mean, I think football is such. I am very biased in this way, but I think football is such a unique sport because there's such a varied group of athletes on the field at any given time. Once you get to college, and certainly in the NFL, there's a lot of diversity on the team, which is really cool Because, you know, I grew up in a tiny town in Minnesota but I had teammates that grew up in in Miami and you know all over the country and in some cases you know from other parts of the world. So there's this exchange of values and of life experiences and backgrounds, definitely a unique group of skill sets that are on the field, but you all come together with this common Goal of having the best team that you can have, at least in an, in a great on a great team, in environment. We're truly, you're there to try to win games. Normally there's a commitment to each other. That that's pretty special. We had that in Seattle, I think.
Speaker 3:Culturally, we had my first couple years that we had a lot of injuries, my rookie year. You know I was a rookie tight end, one of three tight ends, and in on the roster we had a bunch of experienced receivers but a lot of guys got hurt that your Matt had a bunch of injuries. I think our top five wide receivers were at some point injured, miss games on injured reserve. So we had a lot of guys that just that. That happens in football.
Speaker 3:Sometimes you get hit with the injury bug and you know it impacts who's on the field and that In a weird way it played into me having more catches and yards and touchdowns because you know you had to throw the ball to someone. So I had a degree of success the first couple years statistically, and the weird experience part of it was at the same time I realized why I need to get a lot better. There's there's so many ways that I need to improve as a player and so many gaps that I have as a tight end. So on paper it's like, okay, that Solid, solid season or whatever, but the tape said something different. So sorry, straight a little bit from your original question there.
Speaker 2:No, but I mean tell let's just pause there what? What's it like because you can look up John Carlson YouTube and find some video what's it like to catch a touchdown in the NFL? What's that emotion like I?
Speaker 3:Mean, it's an. It's amazing, it feels incredible, but but it's not really any different than catching a touchdown in high school, the way that when we observed, you know our players score touchings, the joy that they had and how they come together and the linemen go and celebrate and lift up the receivers and the running backs and you know if a defensive linemen catch, you know, gets an interception or picks up a fumble and runs into the end zone scores. I think the cool part about it, as you come, it's a, it's a group celebration. One person is holding the ball and they go into the end zone but they got there through at least 11 players on the field at that time and then all the other players that helped those 11 prepare for that moment. So it's such a cool culmination of all the collective effort and you know it's an individual act but it's it's really collectively rooted and yeah, that's not a great way to describe it, but about it.
Speaker 2:Now you know it's just, it's just joy and team. So would you? Would you do anything different in your NFL career? So you had some time in in Minnesota and that was, there were some injuries and then you finished your career just one year here with the Arizona Cardinals. Looking back Anything, anything different or grits.
Speaker 3:I don't think I have regrets because you learn through trials. You learn through the struggles. Looking back just from a football standpoint, I would I spent a lot of off season training time in the weight room and working on movement skills and trying to become a better athlete and stronger and more physically prepared for football. I would have spent more time in football skill development in addition to what I was already doing on the strength and conditioning and speed and movement skills side, the physical skills of blocking and tackling and technique. For every aspect of football there's a fundamental skill. That's the foundation of it and the best players on the field aren't necessarily the biggest, fastest, strongest. There's like a level that you have to be a certain strength and speed and size, but anything beyond that really is unnecessary and there's an opportunity cost to the work you put into gaining that strength and speed. So I would have invested that time a little bit differently. But, like I said, you learn from the experience and the journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely All right. Let's move into more modern day and what the Lord invited you into? Kind of unbeknownst, you were not looking to be a high school. You thought maybe I'd be a high school football coach somewhere down the day head football coach. But it didn't. Lord just opened this door and put it right in front of you. You said yes. What did the Lord teach you in your first year as a high school head, high school football coach?
Speaker 3:No, I was not looking to be a high school football coach At this time. I have four kids and my oldest is 13 and we homeschool them. My wife I should say we, I should say my wife Danielle homeschools our four kids. I love coaching. I think it's a really special way to invest in young people. It's a really cool way to pay forward the people that have invested in me and worked with me in sports.
Speaker 3:And the timing was what I felt. God was opening a door to serve in this way. I look at the position as a service opportunity. There's a lot, there are a lot of moving parts, timing wise. You know, I opened a small business a couple years ago and for the first two and a half three years of it I wouldn't have had the time and the capacity to take on a role like this. But the opportunity became available at the same time as things had kind of fallen into place at my business where I could take some time off and move away and kind of split time. So I felt like God was opening that door and you know, the next biggest step, what I learned in running a small business is you know the operational aspects of a business, operational aspects of a football team are only as good as the team that you create or that you put together to implement process.
Speaker 3:And immediately I went to work trying to recruit great men like yourself to be part of the staff and it was just a blessing to have you and to have the other coaches that we had. We had men that I would have been proud of my kids to play for. So that was my number one goal initially is to get a group of coaches that would love these kids. That number one would model and point these young men to Jesus. And then number two would be committed to being as good as we could be and growing continually as coaches to help these young football players maximize their capabilities as football players so they're not mutually exclusive. To point people to Jesus and try to reflect that and make that preeminent, but then also to try to be as good a player as we can be and collectively to have the best team possible. Those are really the two intentional goals that I had getting into it.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll tell you this, you accomplished them. It was fun to have a front row seat to watch the Lord at work. With our eat principles we established some language really early on. That kind of shaped the culture of our team effort, attitude and team good acronym there and it was yeah, it was fun to see the culture of Gilbert Christian football kind of be highlighted. And there's a lot more kids I can tell you this a lot more kids who are very intrigued because of the culture that you created. But coaching is hard, especially football coaching is very difficult. Like I got, I learned a lot but I got a lot more to learn. So, as you head into, like next season, what are some of it? We're trying to. I know we're trying to get some new coaches and stuff, but like, where are we going to be better on the field because of the experience we had in year one?
Speaker 3:Well, one of the things I love about sports is there's always an opportunity to learn and get better. The, the chiefs, won the Super Bowl last year and they practice every day this year. They can't just rest on what happened last year. There's always opportunity to grow and to be shaped, which is cool. So I think, in looking back on the season there's I have a lot of gaps, just in terms of how I organized our practices and scheduled things. You know, there we there are certain challenges and limitations that we dealt with, primary one being we just didn't have them any players. But the flip side of that is it's a blessing because all those kids get a ton of opportunity in practice and in games. So because of that, we had to design practice in a certain way to get everything in and taught. But I need to be better in how I utilize our time and I need to get kids more reps and need to find ways to make practice a little more competitive, to make it more game like and to help kids improve at a faster rate. But this is, you know, I love. Last year I think I I took the job in February or March and then it was the big push was just to get other coaches to help me because I wasn't going to be able to do it on my own. So that was a big push. So so we're, you know, we're looking to add a few more coaches to ideally have a position coach for each position and that coach can champion. What are the fundamental skills of this position and how do we teach it really really well, really really efficiently, because time is limited. So that's kind of what's going on right now. We're looking at, I'm looking at, practice design in season, how we'll do that. The weight room is going to be a huge. You know we were already in the process of making that a priority this off season.
Speaker 3:I'm a huge believer in multi sport athletes. I think it's great for the athlete, I think it's great for the school. I think it's. You know, it prevents burnout If you specialize in one sport. There's a. I was in sports psychology for a little bit between when I got done with football and then I got into this automotive repair business. You know there's a lot of research that shows that specialization leads to burnout emotionally, spiritually, and it increases the risk of overuse injuries. And then, in a small school, if you want to have elite sports, elite teams. You need all the athletes participating in as many, in as many sports as possible. So I'm a big believer in multi sport athletes, so pushing kids to try to find another sport to get involved in and compete and to contribute. You know this.
Speaker 3:But just to share the, I look at participation in football and in sports in general as a stewardship, a a the stewarding of the gifting that God's given you. So how, being part of the team, it's not a consumption item. Hey, I'm signing up so I can get whatever outcome I'm seeking from signing up and paying a fee. It's not that at all. It's an investment. It's a giving, a pouring out of yourself to the good of this team. And through that investment and through that commitment, each individual player is going to actually get more out of it than if they looked at it like, hey, what can I get from this?
Speaker 3:But that's that's what we're trying. That's really the heart of the culture we're trying to create. How can I contribute to this team and invest in it and how can we elevate, serve one another and elevate the team as much as possible? In the process, counterintuitively, each individual actually is going to have a better experience. They're going to improve more and have more individual opportunities that way. But that shouldn't be the heart of it. The heart of it should be how can I serve my brother?
Speaker 2:John, john, do you know that what you just said is the heart of a healthy congregation? A healthy church is when consumers, those who just care about self, move to Holy Spirit-inspired contributors and partners in the gospel. And that's one of my as a parish pastor. As a church pastor, one of my biggest prayers is Lord Jesus, capture their affections for you so much so that they cannot help but proclaim the one who's called them out of darkness. Live as the hands and feet of Jesus Go to the least, the hurting, the loss, the marginalized, to listen to your spirit, to have their life conformed to the word, and then to say here am I send, send me. You know, that is what you learn on a healthy, on a healthy team, specifically in football this journey from consumer me, me, me, to contributor, him, him, him, and then us, us, us, watching, our, watching, our pronouns. So yeah, that's really cool. There's kind of an organizing principle connected to the body of Christ that, for those who have the eyes to see, football is just, and this is why this is why I love my. I only have one son, john. You've got more sons than I do and I don't know why, but God put upon his heart like football is going to be my main thing he's playing basketball now too, but like he wants to be the best football player he possibly can be and the leadership lessons that get to be taught through the game is just spectacular.
Speaker 2:And some parents you know, you see all the all the data around concussions and it's a it can be a violent kind of injury prone, dangerous sport. What would you tell parents and athletes who are concerned? Because we have even in our context at Gilbert Christian, we have some athletes and parents who move in that specialized direction and a lot of that concern is why don't I? I don't want to get hurt, I don't want to get hurt. I'm just going to go on a soapbox right now, like if your ultimate goal, if your ultimate goal is man, I got to be a John Carlson someday. I got to, I don't know that God gave you a body like John Carlson. You know, like God gave you, you stewarded your time and you've had a whole.
Speaker 2:What I love about your story is you had the Lord open a whole bunch of doors at the right time. If any one of those could have been closed, you could have entered into a different season of life, and so it was all a gift from Jesus. But for the parents that, like, are so focused on the future Johnny's going to go and be the best D1, or they're going to do like the odds of that happening are very, very limited. And so let's make the most of the opportunity that the Lord has put right in front of us. And if you happen to go to a school smaller school where you can do multiple sports, I highly encourage football being one of those sports, given given the realities, the risks that are within football. So what would you say to folks who say I don't know if little Johnny should play football?
Speaker 3:John, Well, I want to touch on the specialization thing just briefly, if that's okay. I think you know, I know that I know parents in that mode and that have that belief in they like they all want the best for their kid. So this, this is not. I mean, there's nothing immoral about it, there's nothing. You know. They want the best for their kid, and what parent doesn't want the best for their child, of course. So I understand the heart behind it.
Speaker 3:The danger of football is legitimate. It's real. It's a real thing. You know, we had a young man who toured ACL this season and it was. It's been a difficult season of life for him because of that injury. We had several other injuries. You know Kai had an injury. You know the physical injuries are going to happen. It's part of football.
Speaker 3:The way that I would recommend mitigating, making the game as safe as possible, is to prepare for it physically, to prepare for it by lifting weights. My oldest son is 13. He's not played tackle football yet. He's done flag up to this point, and part of it the reason that he hasn't done any tackle is he's home schooled. So if he was in a middle school where they had seventh grade tackle football, I'm sure he would have done that this year, but I've told him if he wants to play tackle in high school he's got to lift weights. You have to train and physically get your body ready to sustain you know those hits and to be able to deliver those hits and to do it in a way that's as safe as possible. The next part of preparation is just learning the proper fundamentals and techniques of the positions. You know there's a safer way to tackle, there's a safer way to block and there's a way to learn the game where it is physical, you're not. One of the reasons the game is great is because of the physical contact. But head to head, needless head to head shots, cheap shots, you know hip tossing there's things in the game that we can make safer through proper physical training in the off season and throughout the season, recovery work and then just teaching the sport properly.
Speaker 3:You know, again, I think playing multiple, multiple sports is really important in that playing basketball translates to football really well. The athleticism, the movement skills, the physicality of basketball translates. I never played soccer but I've seen some of our best football players this year are also great soccer players at Gilbert Christian, you know. So you can see that the skills translate and even something like tennis. I played tennis. It's not a contact sport but hand, eye coordination and movement skills and footwork and there's definitely carry over to baseball same thing. A couple of our best players play baseball.
Speaker 3:So is the game dangerous? Well, yeah, there's a risk to playing football, but if you lift weights properly, if you learn about nutrition and recovery, if you sleep, you get the right amount of sleep so that you're recovering effectively. You know, getting into the rhythms of the disciplines required to play football is really, I think, a great way to develop those habits for life. So through that struggle and through the preparation, I think is the training that we're really intending to provide these young men for life. So the way to mitigate the danger is also the way to develop the skills that are going to help you be great husbands and fathers and you know leaders in business and you know teachers, you know. So I think I personally believe that the risk side of it can be mitigated, can't be eliminated, but it can be mitigated and I think the value derived from really investing in the process is so significant that it is worth the risk.
Speaker 3:And I will speak to there's a lot of focus on outcomes in youth sports Outcomes being, you know, as my kid is starter, did we win a state championship? Is my kid going to earn a scholarship? I think those are not. Those are all good things, but it reminds me of Tim Keller's. Got a book called. I wrote it down here. I forget the name of the book Counterfeit.
Speaker 2:Gods, counterfeit Gods.
Speaker 3:And what it the gist of the book is. You know, we as humans, we elevate these good things like sports or like a scholarship or a position in high school sports. We elevate them to a level where only God should be, and that's when it becomes a counterfeit God. These are all blessings from God, but we just put them in the wrong position. So it it.
Speaker 3:It saddens me a little bit to observe such a focus on this outcome, especially when it's down the road. I want to earn a scholarship, so you're focused solely on that right now. Well, there are so many things out of your control that are going to dictate whether you get a scholarship or not. There's a really limited influence that you can have on that God's gifting for you. You know whether or not certain doors open at the right times. You know just the transfer portal like that impacts how high school kids get scholarship. There's these things that are out of your control.
Speaker 3:But what you have right now in front of you, this opportunity in high school sports specifically, is so special and so unique. And I think if, if parents and student athletes focused more on the process that's right in front of them and allowed, you know, kind of held the outcome with an open hand as, hey God, this is yours, the outcome of this is in your hands. I'm going to trust you with that. I think that you would enjoy the experience more. I think they would be. They would actually maximize their opportunity for those next things starting state championships, scholarships but the whole process they would enjoy, like high school sports can be such a joy and they can be such a blessing and they can be such a great way to prepare for life. Let's not look past that. Let's focus on that right now and let's let the outcomes come as they may.
Speaker 2:Well, again, I got my leadership hat on here. That's just the way healthy churches, organizations, function. It's the build measure learn mindset right. It's the lean startup model with life, which requires radical presence to learn to stay humble right now, in the present, to invite Jesus to be Lord of my life and then release all the things in the future that we can't control to him, as we receive data feedback and we'll give it whatever. So we grow up, so we mature. This is the journey of discipleship. It's the humility of Christ meeting us in the present, forgiving our past and then leading us. This is we got to be attuned to him. He's leading us into the future and I think many, many Americans, we struggle with, parents included.
Speaker 2:We struggle with control, controlling the future of our kids, giving them the most and our kids are not our own, john, our kids are the Lord's first and foremost and they've been entrusted to us, to Stuart, and I want to help my son, my daughters I know you want the same Just live with radical joy in the present and experience all the things, the highs and the lows, and entrust that Jesus is leading them through it all. So this has been so much fun. A couple of quick questions regarding leadership coming down the home stretch, what impresses you the most about Jesus and his leadership style, john?
Speaker 3:Again, that's a big question. I think at the base level it's just humility. Great leaders, you know Jesus is God and man, so this he's at another level, of course, but I think in a I try to simplify things for me because I've been hitting the head a lot and I, you know I'm a simple guy Great leaders are humble servants and you can't be more humble than to be the God man who did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. I mean, this Christmas season is so special and I think just this Christmas story is so familiar. It's easy to lose sight of what it's all about. And God came as a child in this way, to die on a cross for our sins. It's a remarkable thing, but the humility that's at the center of all that, to me, is a leadership. Is it like a key leadership principle, I think, from Jesus' life and death?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got the privilege of spending the whole season talking about the leadership lessons of the apostle Paul. Thanks for allowing me to shape that as you look back. What impressed you most? Because Paul's a little bit more accessible. He's not the God man, he's just a dude who was radically changed by the humility of Christ and carrying that message forward, starting churches, shaping culture, all of those things. What impressed you about the apostle Paul?
Speaker 3:He is so on mission for the gospel. His clear direction and purpose and his willingness to suffer for the sake of the gospel was remarkable and is remarkable in scripture, I think, as athletes. That resonates because, again, I think there's a parallel here between the suffering that he endured At a very small level. Football requires some suffering, not at all what Paul experienced, but going through. You did a great job of leading our young men through Paul's ministry, his journey, and I love that you provided that example for them.
Speaker 3:The church that I attend we went through the book of Acts last year in an individual study and it really hit home to me. I've read the book of Acts several times. There have been some studies in years past, but it really hit home the amount that Paul suffered for the sake of the gospel and he kept coming back. He just kept returning. If you read it I forget where it's at, but Paul is literally stoned outside of town and everybody leaves. I'm taking that to assume that they thought he was dead. He lifted himself up, he got back up and just continued on with the purpose that God had for him.
Speaker 3:I'm rambling a little bit.
Speaker 3:I think he's so on mission the way that I try to apply that in my life is God's given me. I'm trying to be a good steward of the positions he's put me in and the opportunities I have to try to lead and serve in my small business, coaching with you and the other coaches, how we serve these young men and lead them In my family, my wife Danielle, and how we lead our kids. Those are really special and unique opportunities to lead. Keeping that all in balance, staying on mission, being purposeful, ensuring that I'm using my time effectively, because time is so limited, and then I'm storing that in a way that honors God and serves those people I just described, and most effectively. That's really weighing heavy on me because I want to be really intentional in this time. My oldest is 13. My youngest is seven and this season of life is rapidly progressing. I'm turning 40 here later this year, which is pretty cool. It's amazing how time flies and I just want to make sure that I'm intentional in the way that I'm living on mission for Christ.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite. You're doing great and you're loved by the Lord man. It's an honor to call you a friend and partner in the gospel and shaping young lives when you bring up 40,. I think of one of my favorite coaching quotes and I forget. I think it's Oklahoma State and I forget the dude's name. I'm a man, I'm 40. You remember that. Talk to me. You ever remember that.
Speaker 3:You remember that clip from Oklahoma State? I can't believe I don't remember that. That's a very memorable clip.
Speaker 2:You gotta look it up. I'm a man, I'm 40. On YouTube and I think it was Oklahoma State back in the day, but the funny thing is they were attacking the kids for not playing up to snuff and everything he goes. Don't go after the kids. He's got this really high voice too, so it's really funny. Don't go after the kids. Look at me, I'm a man, I'm 40. So, john Carlson, you are a man who's just about 40. I'm grateful for you. If people want to connect to you or even follow Gilbert Christian High School football, want to support us, move them forward. How can they do so?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm one of those backwards individuals that has no social media presence whatsoever. The school Gilbert Christian Athletics they do a tremendous job of football and all the other sports there. So you know, on Instagram and I'm sure, all the social media, twitter, all the social media outlets, if anyone wants to connect, you know I love talking sports and faith and kind of the intersection of the two and leadership and just meeting great people. My email address is GilbertChristianfootballcom. We can be old school and you can just send me an email and we can meet up for a copy sometime.
Speaker 2:There we go. There we go. That's my information podcast. Sharing is caring, like, subscribe, comment wherever it is you take this in. Hi, john, I'm not really much on socials as well. I find that I just have too much time, and that is a time I do like a good podcast, though, so I hope, for those of you who listen, you got a lot out of this conversation today with coach head coach Gilbert Christian, high School football and retired NFL veteran John Carlson. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day. Thanks so much, John. Thanks for having me. Tim. Thanks, I'll see you in the next one. Bye.