When Tess Wolthuis and I sat down to talk, the air buzzed with an unmistakable charge of both joy and solemnity. Tess, a beacon of faith and unity within the American Church, and a treasured family friend who stood by my wife in her darkest hours, brings a perspective on discipleship that is as refreshing as it is profound. Our conversation wove through the fabric of community, identity challenges in today's youth, and the profound impact of parenting guided by grace and truth. You're about to step into a heart-to-heart where the stakes are eternal, and the victories, like Tess's daughter's D1 Beach Volleyball successes, are celebrated with genuine delight.
Have you ever considered how trials, like a cancer diagnosis, might deepen your spiritual roots and reforge familial bonds? The journey is never easy, but Tess and I open up about our personal walks through the valley of shadows and how facing mortality has the paradoxical power to ignite a fiercer zest for life and faith. We then cast our gaze outward, to the collective experience of the church, discussing the invaluable role of community in sustaining and enriching our relationship with Jesus, and how practices like journaling and physical exercise serve as the backbone for personal and spiritual fortitude.
As the episode unfolds, we traverse the rich and complex terrain of caring for the mind and body as an act of worship, understanding our physical selves as temples for the Holy Spirit. Tess's engaging narrative will inspire you to consider how nurturing your gifts, like hospitality, can profoundly contribute to the Kingdom. Finally, we stand in awe of the American Reformation's spirit, a call to action that is both a reflection of divine love and a roadmap for leading others from darkness to light in the embrace of Jesus as our Sovereign King. Join us on this transformative journey, where each step taken is a step closer to the radiant light of Christ.
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When Tess Wolthuis and I sat down to talk, the air buzzed with an unmistakable charge of both joy and solemnity. Tess, a beacon of faith and unity within the American Church, and a treasured family friend who stood by my wife in her darkest hours, brings a perspective on discipleship that is as refreshing as it is profound. Our conversation wove through the fabric of community, identity challenges in today's youth, and the profound impact of parenting guided by grace and truth. You're about to step into a heart-to-heart where the stakes are eternal, and the victories, like Tess's daughter's D1 Beach Volleyball successes, are celebrated with genuine delight.
Have you ever considered how trials, like a cancer diagnosis, might deepen your spiritual roots and reforge familial bonds? The journey is never easy, but Tess and I open up about our personal walks through the valley of shadows and how facing mortality has the paradoxical power to ignite a fiercer zest for life and faith. We then cast our gaze outward, to the collective experience of the church, discussing the invaluable role of community in sustaining and enriching our relationship with Jesus, and how practices like journaling and physical exercise serve as the backbone for personal and spiritual fortitude.
As the episode unfolds, we traverse the rich and complex terrain of caring for the mind and body as an act of worship, understanding our physical selves as temples for the Holy Spirit. Tess's engaging narrative will inspire you to consider how nurturing your gifts, like hospitality, can profoundly contribute to the Kingdom. Finally, we stand in awe of the American Reformation's spirit, a call to action that is both a reflection of divine love and a roadmap for leading others from darkness to light in the embrace of Jesus as our Sovereign King. Join us on this transformative journey, where each step taken is a step closer to the radiant light of Christ.
JOIN OUR NEW ONLINE LEARNING PLATFORM!
ENTER CODE - 75ULC2023 for 75% off!
Hello and welcome to the brand new American Reformation Podcast. We long to see the wider American Christian Church fall more in love with Jesus by learning from the practices of the early church and other eras of discipleship multiplication. We want to hear from you, make sure you comment and leave a review, wherever you're watching or listening, to tell us what God is doing in your life or how you feel about today's conversation. Lord, have your way in us. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the American Reformation Podcast, tim Allman. Here and today I pray, wherever you're taking this in, the joy of the Lord is your strength that you're buckled up, driving, getting your water, getting your move on wherever it is that you take these podcasts in, as I get a chat with one of the highest energy disciple multiplier, hospitable to the nth degree. Those followers I know a dear family friend and when I say family friend, tess Wolthaus is our guest today. Tess, you've met so much to me and my family, a friend to my wife. I go back about 11 years now for the role that you had in walking with my wife through her cancer journey, which we don't talk a whole lot about. You're just a dear, dear friend and today's conversation is going to orient around hospitality and friendship, discipleship, just love and care for one another.
Speaker 2:Tess has been a member at Christ Greenfield for a number of years and now is on an extended sabbatical retreat for you retreat or so to Boise, idaho, where her daughter is actually playing D1 Beach volleyball Shout out to Ellie and so they're supporting both Ellie and Dom, and her husband, tim, is getting it done in the marketplace as well. So, tess, thanks so much for hanging out with me today, man, how you doing.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, I'm doing awesome. Thank you for having me. It makes me miss Arizona and my friends and family so much. You kind of put it in a box. You're like, okay, no, those people don't really exist, and then you start seeing them and talking to them and you want to come back. So thank you for having me. This is really an honor, thank you.
Speaker 2:We're opening the box today, so how are you praying for Reformation? That's our big opening question. You've been connected to the Lutheran Church for a long time. I know you've rolled in some different streams as well. As you look at the macro American church, how are you praying for Reformation in these crazy days in which we live? Tess?
Speaker 3:You know, honestly, my prayer and it's not only the macro but every day on a micro life is just when you talk about hospitality and togetherness, is just unity. You know, I really feel like there's a lot coming at us. The world is super noisy right now, like super noisy, more noisy than I've ever felt it in my 50, almost 53 years of life, and I just I pray for unity. I pray that you know I'm doing a Bible study right now. I'm leading a Bible study on 1st, 2nd and 3rd John and there's about seven or eight of us. It's in my home, it's very intimate and you know, when John talks about being a disciple of Christ and what to do and how to do it, and with joy, it's always the baseline is always unity. It's coming together. It's coming together.
Speaker 3:And if there's someone, especially in like I think it was 1st John, no, actually I think, yeah, 1st John where he was like saying, listen, like this I can't remember the guy's name Demetrius, I don't, you might know I'm not as good with the specific names, but what are you saying? What? There's this person in your church that's falling astray or that's being negative or that's being, you know, out of place, like get them back in, like you know, and so I think whenever I think of that, and every time I do a Bible study, every time I dig into a book of the Bible, it's always about unity, so that there's strength in unity. It brings God's such glory when we have unity. And, like you're saying, I, you know I was baptized Lutheran, I grew up Lutheran until I mean, I'm forever Lutheran. Right, I truly, I truly believe you know the Holy Trinity and what Lutheran has stood for and the whole reformation of it.
Speaker 3:And here we have chosen we're actually going to a Calvary church and it's made me really dig in Calvary Chapel. Yeah, and amazing leadership, awesome, awesome pastor reminds me so much of you, just just brilliant with with the word and how to deliver it and making people Absolutely not that, yeah, I mean really like just that feeling. And you're sitting there and you're like, oh, and I mean you just really every single word he goes through. You know we're in Hebrews right now, and every single word in every single verse in every book of the Bible is just, you're just hanging onto you know, and it's and Hebrews itself. You know the God's creation and and who is what is mankind and where do we play in that? It's just. It's all about unity and coming together and really making a simplistic version of why are we here and what are we doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love that. What the fall did, Tess, going back to our origin story, our rebellion story, it? It brought division from ourselves, from a right view of self, right view of God, most especially a united sense of I'm in a community and and then a right sense of self. The fall has really messed things up and led toward division, most especially from from God and from others, and this is the call of the church. Jesus came and he crossed all of those boundaries, right From Jew to Gentile, for the world, and reminded God's people hey, you don't exist just for yourself and you don't exist just for your petty power place that are temporal right. You exist for a higher, a higher calling.
Speaker 2:I'm reading a book right now called Meta-Noyah by Alan Hirsch. I'm hoping to have Alan on in a bit, but this concept of getting above where Christ is. Meta simply means above and to have this continual paradigm shift that the world is calling me to scarcity, it's calling me to insecurity, it's calling me toward these petty power plays and Jesus is seated above and he calls me to set my mind above. This is what Meta-Noyah repentance actually is to set my mind above where Christ is Now. This is not a soft thing.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of times we think of unity as a super, and maybe I'll use feminine and male characteristics. Right, the male characteristic is a little bit more strong and the feminine is a little bit more soft or empathetic, like it's a convergence of both. You could say the convergence of both law and gospel. I heard you reference 1 John, right. Maybe in our churches, for those that are working to divide or have behavior, some of the characteristics of our podcast test is we challenge character behavior that is counter to the humility, the way of Christ. That's a harder thing to do when you talk unity, it seems so soft. Anything to add toward that? Call for maybe the difficult conversations, the character conversations that have to take place to kind of recenter us or to get our minds above rather than below in earthly fleshy things. Anything to add to that?
Speaker 3:test. Yeah, I mean, it really is rising above. It's dying of self. I think, when you think of an actual person is what does dying to self mean? What does dying to self mean? You can look out into the world every day and I still have a child at home. I still have a child that comes home on the weekend.
Speaker 3:Sometimes it's like I'm constantly, as a parent, just saying what is that? You're so laser focused on you, our flesh, we all are right, we all are. But it's asking the question constantly of has, when you're thinking about a person, has this person heard the gospel? I mean, like, really, the question should always be asked has this person heard the gospel? That's our job. And do they know the gospel? And there's just two routes to go. If they don't know the gospel, are you living the gospel for them? Are you living it out so that they can be invited in? And if they already know the gospel, you're really challenging them.
Speaker 3:And really, truth and love. I'm really really big right now in the whole truth and love because my kids are in, you know, just like yours, tim. They're in this world of just what is truth, you know, and it's our job as parents, obviously, to keep them so rooted in what the truth is. And it doesn't come from us, it comes from the Bible and it comes from community. It's like just very Bible driven. I mean, like you know me, I mean I constantly am like what does the Bible say about that? And they're really digging in and knowing the context around each verse and what that means. But yeah, so just to wrap it up, it's, I would say, the unity of being bold enough and courageous enough to speak truth and love and using the gospel as the root of all that. I don't know if that brings it all together.
Speaker 2:So no, it does. It does. Identity is the big conversation today for a lot of young people. Do you know 15% of Gen Z identify as LGBTQ plus.
Speaker 3:I just read that. I just read that I actually read 30, so maybe mine was off.
Speaker 2:It's not good. Regardless, we've got an identity crisis and unless it's identified in anything other than Christ and Him crucified, baptized into His name, we're gonna go down a selfish hole that leads us to despair and destruction and misery, like we don't want that for our kids, and so you gotta talk about that. You gotta talk about that. We just did a sermon on Ishtar. The God of kind of sexual immorality Super issue is a goddess. This is an ancient Near Eastern kind of polytheistic perspective. But Ishtar, that God, which is really spiritual warfare, that God is out and just wreaking havoc amongst our young people today, which lead them to say, oh, I'd love to get your take on this, that I have to agree with absolutely everything you say and do, and if I disagree with anything you say or do, that's hate. That's hate, right?
Speaker 2:The Satan has had a heyday in flipping the paradigm around, because Jesus, the way he interacts with us is he accepts us, he calls us, he knows us, but he doesn't necessarily agree with every aspect of our lives. Right, like I accept myself, I can be kind to myself and still say I don't agree with everything I think and say. And do you know, I'm a work in progress. This is the tension of parenting the next generation. I accept you but I don't necessarily agree with you.
Speaker 2:And our culture has said you have to agree with everything I do and say and frankly, that's the height of idolatry. That's locating the center of truth in the self rather than the center of truth being God above, where he is. He's the one that gets to establish shalas, he's the one that gets to tell us what human thriving really looks like, right? So this continual invitation for all of us, but especially the next generation, to not break the first commandment, to not break have no other gods, the self being the main God. Anything more to add about that acceptance and agreement kind of conversation, cause this is the Jesus way, this is what Jesus did consistently with His disciples, with the woman of the well, nicodemus.
Speaker 3:He accepts him, but he doesn't necessarily agree with all of them Anything more to their test, 100%, I mean you go to any storage uses in the New Testament any story like an Old Testament, I mean just the creation, genesis.
Speaker 3:I mean it's just coming out over and over and over again, but it is going back to the first and second commandment. In fact, I was just. You can appreciate this because I know Kai is Dom's age and you're raising. It's not different, but yeah, well, yes, it is different. It's different to raise a young female going into the world and a young male into the world. I mean, the basic principles of being rooted in the word is the same right, but there are different avenues that you take both.
Speaker 3:You know Tim, you know Tim and you know we're parenting. Our anniversary is coming up 22 years on Friday and it's like, as parents I think this is where it starts too we like to start with the identity of who we are, but really it's the identity of him and it really starts with the marriage. You know it's like God first, his holiness, right, like really understanding the vow that you're making in front of the Lord. You know when you're getting married and the holiness of that and the feeling there's no place really for the feelings in that piece of marriage.
Speaker 3:Right, it's marriage and then, yeah, exactly, and then you think, and then you go to the marriage and making sure that your kids are seeing that you're on the same page and what you're telling them, and it's like when you're parenting a son. The one of the biggest things that I'm looking at right now is just, like you just said, the first commandment love the Lord with all your heart, all your soul and all of your mind. Okay, and you have that. And then you go to the second commandment and you know, just now we're just talking to Dom you know the first four are all about God. What is your relationship with God? Right, those are the first four commands. Then the five through 10 is really the relationship with others and knowing that they are as true today as they were whenever you know, thousands, 2000 years ago.
Speaker 3:Like making sure that you're coming back to that and what does that look like? And getting rid of the idols and the identity. I'm really big on that. I mean like right now, it's like really getting them back to you are not ready to date someone. You are not ready to date someone until you understand the first and second commandment, like you know what I mean, and not that there's grace obviously there's grace in the gospels that were more flawed than we've ever known, but then we're also loved more. I mean, look, it's like Tim Keller's quote, right, like I love the way Tim Keller talks about the gospel. Is that? That's what? That's what that's what gets, that's the grace, right, that's what gives us. It's a doing. But we also have to still live in the truth as well, and I truly believe right now this is a day in age where we do need to get back to the truth. The first and second commandment what does I mean? You could spend a year in the first commandment and what that looks like right now.
Speaker 2:So Well, Luther says, tests that every sin and I think Keller and other theologians across the evangelical spectrum, what's every sin is a sin, ultimately against the first commandment. You know it's placing self for others, created things above God. I'd love, I'd be curious, cause I know you read and spend a lot of time in prayer for the unique ways that God made both your young man and your young woman that you're discipling right now and really launching, preparing to launch into the world. I mean, Ellie, what is she? A sophomore junior? She's sophomore right now, right, yeah.
Speaker 3:Boise, she's sophomore. Yep, sophomore yeah.
Speaker 2:But she's kind of still close to home and some of you guys are still around, so a couple of you it will be different here in a couple of I'm preparing myself for the launch five, 10 years or so, somewhere in there of these little humans. The greatest project the world has ever known is bringing two people together, a husband and wife to launch one human being out in the world that hopefully brings light and love rather than darkness and despair. That's a big, big project. Right now, we need more moms and dads having more and more kids. I really believe this, but it is a big, big deal. I understand why. I talked to some I'm not gonna name names right now, but some of our. We got some young staff members here at Tester. Like I've seen how hard that is and I don't know if we really wanna go on that journey, cause there's gonna be a cost, there's a cross, if you will, in launching another human. So get distinctive though launching men, launching, launching women. What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a distinct difference of it's really knowing, it's having them know that they are the image of God, right and what does, and the characteristics of what a man and a woman are and how you share the gospel, how you use your fruit of the spirit and how much they're in common. But then what role they play, what role they play in a marriage when they do get. I mean it's really setting the simple and like for me, I stay at home now. I worked for gosh forever, I was in the business world, I was in sales, I own my own company and then I was diagnosed with cancer at 45, and the Lord truly did. I hate to say that. I don't like to say that. He told me, but I mean I was really in tune with the Holy Spirit, okay, and I knew that that door was being closed by him. It was just being closed and that had to be a choice on my own, but it was being closed and I have learned so much from the age of 45 to 53.
Speaker 3:I can't even tell you my walk with Christ was always. I went to church every Sunday and I raised my kids in this environment. I had community and I had Bible say, but I never, I really wasn't in relationship with Jesus on a hour to hour, day to day basis, you know, fully in prayer. And what it allowed me to do is surrender completely at the age of 45. And I truly believe he saved not only my life in the rest of my life but my kids' life.
Speaker 3:I mean, my kids were still at the ages Dom was seven, ellie was 10, where I was able to still be at home, stay at home and be like, oh gosh, this is what you wanted me to do, like this job is so big that I shouldn't have any other job. I couldn't do it and I mean like, and I was able to really dig in and realize what it took, with just different personalities, different genders. And I'm reading a book right now called the Age. Well, I reread it, I've read, read it twice, but it's called the Age of Opportunity and that's by Paul Tripp. Thank you, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:No, Paul Tripp's awesome.
Speaker 3:Love it, love it and it talks about. It just talks about raising your kids and really the idolatry that a parent has to get over and surrender themselves before they can be an effective parent. It's really very interesting. Like it doesn't say how to the first five chapters. It tells us how to drop our idolatry so that the kids not only learn from us speaking and training and teaching, but what we're doing on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 2:So yeah, when you say idolatry there, tess, what type of idolatry are you talking about? Like elevating the kids is almost God's like letting them kind of rule everything. Talk more about that.
Speaker 3:Yes, idolatry when it comes to like, what's our idolatry? Exactly? Like living through a child, like what their talents are or what who they are, and it's like putting them on this pedestal where Jesus is, just we'll kind of put off to the side. Because I love my kids so much. Look how good my kids are and look at how, almost in an area of like well, I wasn't like that. So I'm gonna elevate this human being so that I look better and so that you know what I mean. Like it's really deep, because you have to really surrender yourself and go okay, what am I doing, unless my child? If my child is glorifying God through something that they're doing, wonderful, but don't use it as an idol of yourself as a parent that you're parenting style.
Speaker 3:You know, what I mean. Like it because it's like they're sinful, just like you, right, like if you put your idolatry in them, you're setting them up for just misery, like you were saying, like just complete destruction and complete misery. So it's letting go of those idols early on in knowing and catching yourself all the time and really it's just a big old piece of humble pie, right, and just surrendering yourself to that. And so back to your question though raising a female and raising a male. I say this in how, mostly how are they going to be a mate? Right, like, how is Dom going to be the best husband? I truly think of that daily, like is this going to make him a better husband?
Speaker 3:So, because you know, in this day and age, what I have seen and I'm sure you see it as being a pastor of church is men are not shepherding their wives. They're not. They're not leading the call of their Christian walk with life, and they need to, they have to take on those feelings. I mean, the Bible says the husband should take on that for their wife and for their kids, that they are the leader of the household in that right. And so trying to, as a teenage boy, 16 years old.
Speaker 3:How are you, right now, shepherding the girl that you're dating so that she is growing in Christ? She's growing and she, you know, I mean, like what are you? It's a big responsibility, I guess that's what I'm saying. It's a big responsibility. And then for Ellie, as being a woman, how are you nurturing, how are you respecting, how are you softening things you know? And as for women, these days, you know she's in D1 volleyball, so it's all about her schedule and her this and her this, but I'm, you know, constantly bringing her back and saying, okay, you are in a relationship. So how do you effectively do both, if that's what God is calling you to do? You know, how do you maintain this softness and this over here, but then also doing this. So it's a, it's very interesting on how you parent differently and get them prepared for being, for glorifying God in in a marriage setting.
Speaker 2:Tess, tess. I thought you said that that Dom wasn't ready to date anybody. And then you just, you know, this is Dom. I'm just giving you First of all, this is my home too.
Speaker 3:He has to. He's not, he has to get his license. This is part of him. I'm like, okay, you can't really date anyone until you can actually go and pick them up and open the door for them and drive them somewhere. There's, I don't want her driving you somewhere and I mean so, yeah, it's a, that's, that's nuts, that's nuts.
Speaker 2:I love it, I love it. So what? I hear you, what I hear you say and I've wrestled with this too like the, the male characteristics. And our culture gets this way when we talk gender, and then male and female characteristics, two separate things. Like some men can have softer, maybe feminine characteristics, maybe it turned toward the arts, et cetera, and a lot of men, though, are hardwired to be more aggressive. You know more, more frank it's how do you steward that male characteristic after the heart of heart of Christ, to be the, to be the right amount of courageous leader, calm, peaceful but but visionary for the life of your family, that looks, maybe, beyond the here and the now. Right that those are some positive male characteristics, husbandly characteristics that should be in our homes. The feminine characteristics this is why we compliment one another beautifully. It's, it's more in the present, it's more feeling oriented. Really, you can look at the right and left hand side of the brain, men, or maybe more left hand, more more logical, if you will, and don't take this the wrong way, ladies, we need to start. Everything starts on in the right hand side of the brain, right With joy and peace and love, the care for the emotional, the emotional reality of of the home, like women, are more hardwired to do that. So how do you fan into flame and then recognize that each one of our kids this is a complexity of the whole endeavor each one of our kids are radically unique. They have some of those characteristics feminine, male, et cetera but not all of them and and we we need to draw out those characteristic gaps that that we see, that that sin frankly has has ravaged in our, in our kids, that leads them to just focus on, on self, rather than giving self away.
Speaker 2:I'm going to pivot the conversation a bit here. Tess, this is so fun. Let you mentioned your story around your cancer journey and your kids seeing your faith grow in and through, through struggle. What is it about the human being that we, I think we know that, oh my goodness, on the other side of struggle, I'm going to grow, life is going to be better. But Satan, satan, leads us to say it all costs. Keep trouble away in your parenting life and your personal life. But sometimes the Lord just brings those moments for us and it's really as I look at life and I get to as a pastor, I get to see other people's lives. It's a series of un. You could label them unfortunate events, which are really fortunate events because these struggles, these trials, lead us to see our desperate need for Jesus. So just talk about your story through struggle and what the Lord has taught you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean honestly, it's really my faith story. I mean starting at the. You know, it's like you know. I mean Alexa and I have been friends for many years and it just I just don't think it's coincidence that she was diagnosed with such a incredibly daunting disease, especially at such a young age with such young kids, and she was diagnosed with it and I just remember it hit me hard. And then to think that a year and a half later, I mean crazy, right, that's, that's not coincidence, a year and a half later that I was diagnosed. And I mean to see Alexa's grace honestly and I, I I tell her this all the time and she won't take the credit usually because she's so humble, but I mean to her grace through it all and that it wasn't about her, she didn't bring attention to herself on it, it was always God's glory, it was always how, how, how God was so loving to her you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And I just adapt. I literally adapted and imitated that because and that's where I found it from because there's so many people in this world, when they do get diagnosed, there's a lot of fear, and what you do with fear is very interesting to me and I've seen a lot because I do have I called a ministry. It's a ministry I usually minister to about two or three women a month that are going through cancer, usually breast cancer, and I take it as a complete honor, one that they watched me maybe through it, or a friend had watched me through it, kind of like I'd watched Alexa through it, right, and they come to me for just being rooted in in where, where? What do I focus on? And that's really, through the suffering, especially in first, first period, peter was my friend through the whole thing. I mean, first Peter, all that talks about such a struggle and how to have joy through his struggle, and, like you were saying, that it really does. I look back at now and changed my whole life. It changed the whole directory of my faith life and how I love the Lord with my whole heart, I mean. And then, getting back to the first commandment, it literally came full circle of knowing and loving the Lord and loving other people. It really did. And I, that's, all I can tell people is please, don't be afraid.
Speaker 3:With with a diagnosis or a death or a, you know, whatever comes at you, whatever struggle it is, don't be afraid of it, because it's really where you focus. You know, I just really dove into the word, I just dove in and I read it over and over and over until I think, because I was so scared I didn't know what else to do. That's all I could do is I just turned to Jesus and I'm like just just let him pour into me, just fill me up, and I, I remember thinking it's if I just keep on focusing on Jesus, I won't, you know, I won't fall, I won't drown, and that's all I kept on doing. And with that he just filled me up so much. And it's really where you focus.
Speaker 3:And a lot of people focus on themselves. They go inward, whether it's self pity, whether it's self destruction, whether it's, you know, numbing it, whether it's a lot of, you know, victim mentality. Look at me, or even these days I've been seeing people like almost like like a badge of honor and they'll show this and they'll show that and this picture and that picture and how much, how much pain there is to it, and it's like, oh my gosh, you're not focusing. Don't focus on that. You know what I mean? You're, you're going to be miserable, it's going to destroy you if you focus on that no-transcript. Focus on his, the salvation he has promised us, focus on the relationship with him, like it's really just focusing everything on him and everything else just kind of falls to the wayside and he makes way with whatever it is.
Speaker 3:And so for the last seven years, I'll tell you, the enemy wants to always come in. It took about I'm not joking, it took about two to three years of that intensity. I was the love for the Lord. I mean I would stand on, pet, you know. You know, I mean I was on your other podcast, I mean it's just.
Speaker 3:And then all of a sudden the enemy kind of starts lurking in. And why? Because you get lazy again. You get lazy, you're not always going into the word, you're not as fearful with something anymore. So then you stop doing the Bible study or you stop doing this and you've got to go live this life. And then all of a sudden something else will come up.
Speaker 3:You know, we moved to Idaho and it was a big one year situation where I'm like, okay, and the Lord clearly was saying, get back into you, know, get back into me. And I remember I was just like, oh my gosh, that is it. That is it. You just constantly, no matter what your face with this, focusing on the Lord and being surrounded by people that will hold you accountable. To that, you know, and I thank you because you hold people accountable, you are courageous enough, you're bold enough and you love the Lord with your whole heart. Tim and I have always said that about you when we came into the church, how many years ago. He loves Jesus, like he doesn't. He just loves Jesus and it's just like. I feel like it's just that simple Just love Jesus. And so if you love Jesus, you're going to talk about it and you're going to read about it every single day of your life. The facts.
Speaker 2:So thank you. I love our friendship, I love your passion and I love the simplicity with which you talk about the Christian faith. It's just eyes and a heart that's focused on Jesus. That's all the father wants for his kids, all the father wants.
Speaker 2:It's for us to focus on Jesus and that's a Holy Spirit's call to help us remember, to help us remember how good he is, what he's done for us, his presence in our lives, and Satan wants to steal, kill and destroy us from the source of life, which is Christ, the light bringer. I'm wrestling with the story right now of the disciples on the road to Emmaus and I love, I love this story and many, many people know it, but I love, I love listening to how other commentators like bring it alive. And this is a shout out to Henry Nowan, whose spirit has long been with the Lord now. But he brought to mind how the story really is the divine liturgy and when I say liturgy I don't necessarily mean the hour of worship, I mean the liturgy, or you could say even the story of life they're invited to interpret the scripture in community. Right, they couldn't do it alone, they needed someone else they didn't know it was Jesus to kind of open their eyes and then they invite Jesus. They don't know it's Jesus just yet, but they invite Jesus. I think this was the Holy Spirit right, saying hey, invite him to stay, he's gonna keep going, but you need to abide with him. This is the gift of prayer. Right, I need to abide in the Lord, I invite him near by the Spirit's power. And then he's known to them, revealed in the breaking of the bread. There's this hospitality component, yes, sacramental, mysterious reality of the presence of Christ. And then they're called to go, the fourth movement of this liturgy, if you will. They're called to go and help others.
Speaker 2:Remember, they run back that night, the resurrection day, that Easter Sunday. They run back seven miles on that road. They turn about. This is a metanoia, right. They were going a certain direction in fear and anger, confusion, all this kind of stuff. We thought he was gonna be the one. And now they see him and Jesus actually departs. Why? It's a gift for us who have not seen and are still found in faith in him. And they run back. We've seen the Lord. He's appeared to Simon and the women, just as he said. His word is true. So we need, we forget. Why do we need the liturgy? Why do we need corporate worship, et cetera? Because we're prone to forget the promises of God and we're prone to believe the lies of Satan which keep us in fear rather than in faith in the one true God. Anything more to add to that test.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that's a. I mean I just here I'm gonna show you this is so funny. I mean this is not funny. This is the way the Lord works, right? How interesting. Look at the Bible study that I'm leading.
Speaker 1:Abide abide.
Speaker 3:That is the Bible study John 15. John, yes, and I'm well, it's first, second and third John, but bringing in, you know, because he wrote John right, and then he wrote first, second and third.
Speaker 2:John, I'm referring to the vine and the branches. John 15 test is all about. This is his upper room discourse, which is one of the craziest parts. John 13, he washes his disciples feet, shows them what sacrificial love looks like. And John 15 then. And then the high priestly prayer coming in. John 17,. But right in the middle of that kind of longer excursus from the night before he was betrayed, he gives us this analogy, this image of being connected to the vine. Apart from me, you can do nothing, no fruit will come in your life unless you're connected to me. So I love that book. What are you learning about the concept of abiding?
Speaker 3:Well, and I was just gonna tell you on the connection piece, like you were saying, like it's you can bring people to tears Like it's our responsibility, the people that have walked it and have learned it and have suffered through it. You've got to use your story. You've got to use your story and that energy. I have seven women coming in, you know, every Wednesday and I'm not joking you, some of two of them were in tears and just looked at me and said thank you, thank you for bringing me in community. It's what I was missing in my life. Like I mean, these are women that are 50, 60 years old. You know that just it's like that feeling of like oh my gosh, the glorification of the Lord. Like they just sit there and I just can't wait.
Speaker 3:Why Not? Because I'm the leader and the host of it, because I can't wait to absorb those raw emotions from them on how much the Lord is going to move them during this 10 week Bible study. You know we start with prayer, we end with prayer and already two prayer requests through the last week have been answered by the Lord and it's just like that's the kind of testimony that you want to be living. It's that living. Jesus is living with us day in and day out and answering our prayers, and I can't wait every week for them to come back into the home and for me to be touched in a different way and for them, and it's all it's.
Speaker 3:I just encourage everyone, especially women out there, that they don't know where to get in a weekly Bible study. It's amazing, the power of the intimacy. And back to the first question of being united. Maybe it's not, you're not, maybe you're not thinking the macro church of being united, but just be united in a small Bible study that you're reading, a book of the Bible, you know. That to me is the abiding, just abiding in him, you know, trusting in Jesus.
Speaker 2:Amen. If I could snap my fingers, tess, and have every baptized believer at Christ's green field have a relationship with two close friends, that they spend time interpreting the word, applying it to their lives, like that would be the biggest game changer. Right, just? And we call them small groups. It better be centered in the word of God, but just two of your friends. Just get together and open up first, second, third, john, galatians, romans, whatever John's gospel, and see the Holy spirit come alive. I can't. One of the lies I think that Satan has told us is just you and Jesus. Just you. Go find that Jesus time, you and Jesus. I mean, I'm not saying anything against, like personal devotional time in your morning or whatever meditation, that's all well and good, but the scripture is meant to be interpreted in community and this is really the heart of hospitality, like I'm just opening up my doors for me to talk about Jesus and to invite you to do the same. This isn't rocket science, tess. Yeah, anything more to say?
Speaker 3:there. No, that is it. And the thing is, those people that do say that, because I get that feeling of okay, I just need that is the precursor that you should. That should be a morning discipline that just gets you prepared to get into the shower to decide where you're going for the day. That's just to prepare you right, that's to prepare you. And then maybe at night, maybe debriefing and going oh my gosh Lord, look at what you did. Yeah, but in between all that, you are with people.
Speaker 3:I mean and this is coming from someone that you know I, I would, I love community. I mean, I love it, I love it. I go go to Idaho. I don't know anybody. Okay, I didn't know a soul. I knew one friend, she worked full-time and I'm like okay, how do I do that? How do I start this? And and after seven months, I knew 12 women, not only knew them, but wanted the call. Each of them said I need to say by start a Bible study. And my biggest sin was that I didn't start it right. I wasn't courageous enough and I learned that I don't need to necessarily know and everybody inside. But that's, that's. The ticket is that you have to be in community and talk about it and See the prayers work not only for yourself but for other people. So it's yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:I Love it.
Speaker 3:It's my, I love it.
Speaker 2:It's your ministry while you have it.
Speaker 3:I just, I just love, I just love the Lord so much like I just love the Lord so much and his holiness and I just, you know, having two kids and a husband and it's like that's all, you don't need much more. I mean, there, that's a handful right there just being married and having two kids and leading a small Bible study.
Speaker 2:So let's go deeper into that. Like some people are making excuses, I can hear women and men saying I don't really like having people into my home. I'm frankly it tests test sounds like a remarkable extrovert. I'm an introvert and so I'm not. I'm not maybe gonna do that, as naturally Not everybody is you. You're fearfully and wonderfully uniquely made. But are there two or three kind of invitations that you'd give to the person that says that's still on on the fence about Just maybe opening up their home or just maybe it's not their home, going to the coffee shop with a couple friends To build bridges of understanding and care centered in the word of God, anything more that could be kind of helpful On that journey for folks to say I don't, I don't do that, naturally.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I get that honestly, I do get that, being especially the home you know your home is. I love, I've always loved to open my home. I love home, like I love decorating, I love designing, I love hospitality, so that that those two mesh very well for me. I, honestly, if it's not a gift of yours to actually open up your home and that brings way too much anxiety and way too much fear, don't do that. Then. Just go to one, just find one and be a helper, that's all. Be a helper, bring, bring the tea, bring the Whatever the healthy green juice is, whatever you know, we need to talk about that healthy living.
Speaker 3:But I mean there's, there's so many other ways you need to discover your gift. Then, like, if you're gonna, if you're gonna, push away that piece that you don't feel like that's a gift of yours, that's fine. I told I do totally get that. But find out what your gift is and and as you walk into a room, what is that gift, and at least just walk in the room, be crazy, walk in the room.
Speaker 2:So all right, man, while you brought it up, we got at least get to this, because you and I resonate with habits, physical care I think some of our struggles in the church tests are our first article, reality, meaning how we relate to God as the creator and the one who created our Bodies, our minds. We are what we eat, what we fuel ourselves with, shapes actually our, our biochemistry, and Right now we can go down a path that is not healthy for us. I mean the process, food industry and and even the external factors. I, I really believe my wife's Breast cancer came from External things and we can talk about what those things are environmental factors Something went awry that shouldn't have, shouldn't have happened, that was outside of her. So just talk about care for, for the flesh and how, for the temple of the Holy Spirit. First Corinthians, chapter 6, that we need to be Mindful about what we're putting in our bodies and how it's shaping our, our mindset.
Speaker 3:Yes, 100% and I, I Can't any disease, and I'm sure anyone. You have a podcast. Being a pastor, you see people with this disease, or I have this, or oh, you've never probably heard of this, but I've that everyone has something. And to know, first and foremost, that this body, this body, is an image, an image of God, like, if you really truly believe, like this holiness and this image is it. It's a, it's a, it's really about love, it's, it's real when it comes down to the body. It's really. Do you love the image of God and do you love yourself? You know part of the first and second hand miss. Love the Lord with all your heart, your mind, your spirit and Then love your neighbor as yourself.
Speaker 3:I think people forget he's assuming that you, you do love yourself. You know what I mean. Like you love yourself, and people kind of forget that it's like love your neighbor, love your neighbor Well as yourself, of yourself, okay, which means there has to be a deep Appreciation and gratefulness for your body and when you are living in Gratefulness, truly, when you're living in true gratefulness, you will only put things into your body that the Lord, the glorifies the Lord, okay, so this whole the enemy is processed food. The enemy is is instant gratification, right. The enemy is is all this stuff? That's just not even food. You know we think of red dyes and blue dyes and processed food. So I you know that's a whole nother podcast and I know you have so many experts that have come on there, but it is about a discipline of Drinking the water. I mean just known facts, right Like you can go to any Instagram Right now if anybody that's a health guru who may not have Jesus in their life, but because we know that what Jesus is and what he does, worse, he will help us get there.
Speaker 3:It's it's sunshine, it's everything. It's very simple. It's getting enough sunshine. It's walking on his earth. It's drinking water. It's eating whole foods. It's eating foods really that he has, that he created. And if you stick to that and keep it simple just like we kind of kept this simple of loving Jesus, it's really actually more simple than people think it is and Truly the root of it is the love is love.
Speaker 3:It's love for the Lord, it's love for yourself, your body, the temple and and making sure that you're understanding when you look in that mirror. It's an image of God. Don't look at the bottom. I mean, everyone has this and that it's not. It's not. It's not weight, necessarily, it's not weight. And where the weight is on your body, it's it's Inside.
Speaker 3:What's fueling you, what's making you a light for the world, what gives you the energy? And yeah, cancer for me, same thing as Alexa, I truly believe I think it was environmental, the stressors. I'm reading right now a lot about the nervous system, like what does the nervous system do for your disciplines in your life? So that's an interesting, that's been an interesting thing to discover and to look into. But yeah, it's just, it's having an eye on it and making sure that this is take, it's kind of like really getting in the word each day.
Speaker 3:It's getting in the word each day, that's a precursor, that taking care of your body in the morning and setting the tone and that and the goals for the day, that's just that should just be a given for you. And then the enemy is gonna try to get you off course all day long, just like he he tries to do with the Lord, you know. I mean like that's it's really just self-control. It's the fruit of the spirit. The self-control piece of the fruit of the spirit is probably the biggest thing when it comes to the body.
Speaker 2:Tess is so good. This has been so much fun. My mind wants to go like. I want to talk about the nervous system. We're almost at the time.
Speaker 2:I know I want to talk about. I heard, I heard a talk recently on tech neck. Have you heard about tech neck? So what our spine is doing and our neck, the curvature of our spine, the curvature of our neck, is we're looking down at our Phone all day and what's that, what that's meaning for our neck, mobility, our shoulders down through our hips and everything like it's not. It's not good. It's not good. We need to be, we need to be mindful. We are moving things. I heard we've actually become professional sitters. We become professional. Our body has has adjusted to how much we sit and we actually, if you think about it this whole podcast We've been moving if you've been listening your head, but we're just professional and moving while we're sitting.
Speaker 2:So could one of the adjustments be hey, I'm just gonna start doing some very functional fitness things to get my body, because the majority of my day is gonna be gonna be sitting Can we at least do six minutes to 60 minutes of some element of movement, walking, body Stretching. The older I get test, the more I got to focus on stretching, or else stuff is gonna go all haywire and it affects Everything, like if my back hurts if I pull the muscle or something like that. If my core is not strong, like I'm gonna be more Agitated during the day. I'm a holistic. I'm a holistic being my leadership. It's gonna be a little bit off if I haven't got my water in the morning.
Speaker 2:If my digestive system, you know it's not, it's not working the way it should, you know I'm gonna be more prone towards sickness. I'm gonna have more sick days, the colds and all those types of things we're gonna hit me if I don't mind caring for the temple of the Holy Spirit because I want to be able to show up so that the Holy Spirit shows off every single day. This is not about me. I could care less about if anybody remembers Tim. It's about Jesus. It's about being present to be the hands and feet, the aroma of Christ for people that are carried around With fear and worry and security, anxiety and are getting are getting distracted ultimately our rhythms test.
Speaker 2:Right, that's right already keep us focused on the mission that Jesus has called us to. I'd love to get your take on this. One thing I added into 2024 is scribing, or journaling. Shout out to hell, elrod and the miracle morning and how Scribing now what I've started to do and I'm like 80% of the of my evenings. It's not become, it's on the way to becoming a habit, but writing down the three things I'm grateful for. This is a simple journaling technique three things I'm grateful for that I saw God do in that day, and then three things as I go to bed that I'm excited about I'm expecting God to do tomorrow. Simple, that's it's, it's done, and I've started to do that at night as one of my, one of my rhythms. Have you kind of taken on any kind of journaling reflecting written word? Type of the type of disciplines test?
Speaker 3:You know, I honestly, I'm usually in a Bible study at that time and that that's the only time I actually sit down and actually write things down and usually in my Bible says there's time where you just put what you're grateful for, what you're expecting of I. I probably I could do more of that in writing. Um, I, I believe in it. I believe when you take a pen to paper. I'm not into the whole note section. I love note section on my phone, but I really do like even the just writing, writing things down in the paper and looking. I to be honest with you and you think of that piece of great. I write down prayers. I look at, I write down the prayers of my whole Bible study group or my family, write them down and I look to see what's going on with those prayers so that I can constantly keep up in my prayer life. So, yes, I completely agree with that In the movie In the Body.
Speaker 3:You know I know I've been doing Pilates now for almost seven years. I truly believe that the piece of knowing every piece of your body and the stretching piece and, by the way, it just does not get any better. Your body just wants to shrivel up and get into a ball and you feel like every morning you have to, you know, go back out. So, yeah, the stretching's big. Yeah, I mean, there's so much, there's so much. But I think each individual person has to do what's right for them, cause everyone's like oh, I want to get into Pilates, I mean it's like find something that you absolutely love, find something that you love to do and make it your own.
Speaker 3:My two things that I do are walk outside in nature and Pilates. Honestly, that's really the two things that I love to do and, be honest with you, those are the only things I really have time for. Otherwise, it's taking up my whole life or I get obsessed with other things. So, yeah, taking care of your body just so that you have the energy to keep up that level of glorification for God, you know. Yeah amen.
Speaker 2:I want to. I have this vision. I think it's a Holy Spirit's vision, it's God's vision. I think it's a vision for human flourishing in general. But I have this vision of just falling off a cliff when I die and that sounds I'm using it hyperbole, but I'd love for just something to happen. And but whenever it happens 65, 75, 85, 95, 95, I don't know, whenever it happens I'm still giving, I'm still producing, I'm still partnering, I'm still collaborative with other humans, I'm still writing, I'm still being inspired to dream new dreams.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the biggest fallacies that Satan has brought I think, especially to the Western culture, a very, very wealthy culture is you work X amount of years to get to that point where you don't work anymore. It is not helpful, it's not in the Bible. Retirement's not in the Bible. Continue to give your life away. You're going to have different seasons of life. I'm not always so. I got to prepare myself. I'm not always going to be the pastor at Christ Greenfield. I'm not always going to be the leader of the Unite Leadership Collective, one of the leaders there, like that's okay, there's going to be different seasons.
Speaker 2:Seasons come and go, but I always want to be a producer, what I'm really excited about in the next season, because I feel like to round this out like our kids were in a similar season right, our identity can't be wrapped up in the kids. I want to dream new dreams beyond our kids. Grandpa, grandpa dreams. I'm already priming my heart to pass on more grandpa wisdom, you know, and for me it's the written word. I love to write. I got dreams of writing various books to be an author and all those types of things to shape the church, to shape just leaders in general. I want to be way more influential with the written word than the spoken word, maybe in my next season of life. Any kind of new dreams that you're dreaming right now, especially with your kids heading on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like I'm so in it right now. I feel like I'm so in it. I have dabbled in what that looks like. I've dabbled in releasing my kids. I guess that's my dream is making sure that I gracefully release my kids so that they are not overshadowed by me or my husband, or like I want them to have a genuinely individual relationship with Jesus, and in order for them to do that is just releasing them. So, to be honest with you, my dream that I'm not quite even to that. That is my dream right now and I'm still living within that.
Speaker 3:I can't release them completely. Obviously, for many financial reasons, whatever the reasons are simply driving them somewhere. But I think my dream is to truly release them and have the grace and the love. And but get the truth, because I do one thing I have noticed as parents in between the ages of 60, let's say, 60 to 73, they've been almost bullied by kids. Sometimes they're kids that aren't rooted in the Lord and they kind of start taking their kids' version of that and it's like oh, no, no, no, that's you know. I mean that you're releasing them, but you're still a very influential person that's rooted in the Lord. Does that make sense.
Speaker 3:I feel like people are kind of like taking the advice of the enemy and the world and this noisy world, and they're kind of like oh well, my kids. It's like no, no, no, no, no, no, your kids are not God. You know what I mean. Like your kids are not God, god is God, and if your kids are getting off track, let's gracefully release them into. You know what I mean. So I think that's my dream is just, I know I brought these two kids into the life they're not mine, they're the Lord's and just releasing them back to him and him saying good job, good, good job. As much as you can do.
Speaker 2:I laugh because I just caricatured the male dream which is a lot about. It was a lot about me and kind of the vision of the future for me and that's a fine dream. But how you brought the feminine characteristic, which I need as well, to stay connected to the present and connected to the launch of our children, which is our number one responsibility as a mom and as a dad.
Speaker 3:I think. But I think you're exactly right. My husband, tim's, would be completely different, right? He wouldn't even be really thinking. I mean, his job is to make sure that we're taking care. You know what I mean that he's leading the way and taking care of that, and I? That's why I love being, I love, I love being female. I do, I love that.
Speaker 2:Different, as you know.
Speaker 3:And guiding into that, so yeah, yeah ask me another couple years what my dream is, and I know I'm gonna have a new one, but that's the greatest thing, too, about loving Jesus. He's going to put that dream in my heart. He's going. I'm expectant. I'm expectant and hopeful of what he's gonna put in my heart, on what I need to focus on the next two years. I'm ready for it. I'm ready for it.
Speaker 2:Tess, this has been so much fun Could talk to you. It's our flu man.
Speaker 1:And I'm late to a meeting. I gotta get to a staff meeting, Tess, and here we are talking about Jesus, but this has been so good.
Speaker 2:People wanna connect with you into your ministry, especially maybe in cancer care and those types of things. How can they do so, Tess?
Speaker 3:They can call me up my phone number. Can I get my phone number?
Speaker 2:You can yeah.
Speaker 3:I would love a phone call, a text, even a friend. I get so many people that say I'm not going through this, but my friend and she needs help. I love to do it. It is a ministry of mine. Please reach out to me whether it's there's so many different categories of things that people are going through. So, 951-533-5058, honestly, Give me a call, shoot me a text I don't even have to know you and just say this person needs just some support right now, Somebody that's gone through it, that can give them hope, and I would love to do that for them.
Speaker 2:Well, would you share listener, would you share this podcast? Share Tess's story, share her digit, share her phone number. And she just wants to be available to serve and care, to pray for you're a prayer warrior to bear the burdens of those that are walking through something that's scary, from parenting to cancer and everything in between, to just love and care, to be the hands and feet of Jesus. I'm better as a follower of Jesus, because I know you, tess. You're a dear friend, dear family friend. Thank you for the way that you pour, I've poured into our family, into the lives of my kids, how you prayed for me and my wife. I'm gonna get emotional and, yeah, I miss you and love you. I can't wait for you to move back to Gilbert, to be quite honest. So, yeah, I'm ready, I love you guys.
Speaker 3:You know that we love you, our family loves you. We adore you guys and I just I really the heart of Jesus that both you and Alexa and your kids have is just extremely precious to us. Thank you for keeping us rooted, thank you for leading us to the Lord always, in everything, and I just love what you're doing. So keep eating good, keep drinking good juices, keep exercising same cause. We need your energy. We need your energy, we need your unification, and I sure do miss your leadership. I miss Alexa's sweet soul. Happy birthday to her. And I love your kids and I love that. We can fall and fail and mess up every single day, but we always come back to what the truth is right, and that's exactly why we love you guys.
Speaker 2:So thank you, Amen, amen, Thank you. This is the American Reformation Podcast. Please share this with someone who needs to be encouraged and inspired to go on the journey which is just following Jesus as our King and Lord, the lover of our souls, the one who is within us, above us and before us, preparing a way that we would walk in him and draw others out of the darkness and despair of this dark and dying world into the light and love, a light and love of Jesus. He is the Christ, the crucified and risen one. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day. This is the American Reformation Podcast. Thanks so much, Tess.
Speaker 3:Thank you, amen. I have another great day with you.