Venture with us as we sit down with Reverend Dr. Rich Rudowske, a figure of profound impact in the sphere of Bible translation, and journey through the intersections of faith, language, and culture. His experiences, from the sands of Botswana translating the Gospel of Luke to leading expansive translation projects across Southern Africa, weave a narrative of dedication and vision. We're not just talking about the American Christian Church's evolution; we're witnessing it through the lens of global connectivity, where privilege is replaced by partnership and joyous expectation.
This episode is a masterclass in the art of cross-cultural ministry and leadership, where Dr. Rudowske imparts wisdom on navigating the delicate balance between guiding and empowering. As we traverse the stories of multiculturalism within church missions, we explore the layers beyond ethnicity, including generational and geographical nuances. It's a testament to the adaptability and creativity required to integrate diverse perspectives into a unified mission, highlighting the innovative strategies of Lutheran Bible Translators that champion this diversity.
Finally, we celebrate the ambitious strides toward making scripture accessible to every language group by 2033 and the ingenious approaches to reaching oral and narrative cultures. Dr. Rudowski's anecdotes and insights into the global challenges of Bible translation shed light on the power of collaboration and technology in spreading the Gospel. We wrap up with personal reflections on developing daily habits that nurture our faith and invite each listener to partake in the transformative journey of living out the Gospel in their everyday lives. This isn't just an exploration; it's an invitation to be part of the story.
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Venture with us as we sit down with Reverend Dr. Rich Rudowske, a figure of profound impact in the sphere of Bible translation, and journey through the intersections of faith, language, and culture. His experiences, from the sands of Botswana translating the Gospel of Luke to leading expansive translation projects across Southern Africa, weave a narrative of dedication and vision. We're not just talking about the American Christian Church's evolution; we're witnessing it through the lens of global connectivity, where privilege is replaced by partnership and joyous expectation.
This episode is a masterclass in the art of cross-cultural ministry and leadership, where Dr. Rudowske imparts wisdom on navigating the delicate balance between guiding and empowering. As we traverse the stories of multiculturalism within church missions, we explore the layers beyond ethnicity, including generational and geographical nuances. It's a testament to the adaptability and creativity required to integrate diverse perspectives into a unified mission, highlighting the innovative strategies of Lutheran Bible Translators that champion this diversity.
Finally, we celebrate the ambitious strides toward making scripture accessible to every language group by 2033 and the ingenious approaches to reaching oral and narrative cultures. Dr. Rudowski's anecdotes and insights into the global challenges of Bible translation shed light on the power of collaboration and technology in spreading the Gospel. We wrap up with personal reflections on developing daily habits that nurture our faith and invite each listener to partake in the transformative journey of living out the Gospel in their everyday lives. This isn't just an exploration; it's an invitation to be part of the story.
JOIN OUR NEW ONLINE LEARNING PLATFORM!
ENTER CODE - 75ULC2023 for 75% off!
Hello and welcome to the brand new American Reformation Podcast. We long to see the wider American Christian Church fall more in love with Jesus by learning from the practices of the early church and other eras of discipleship multiplication. We want to hear from you, make sure you comment and leave a review, wherever you're watching or listening, to tell us what God is doing in your life or how you feel about today's conversation. Lord, have your way in us. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the American Reformation Podcast, tim Allman. Here I pray wherever you're taking this in after you've gotten your water, you got your workout, you're moving. It's a great day, those cells filled by the Holy Spirit purposing you, motivating you for loving good deeds this day, all with the intent of making Jesus known in word and deed. I'm so pumped today because I get the privilege of observing the leadership of this man now, for over the last year, I'm grateful for this conversation with Reverend Dr Rich Rudowski. He began serving as the Executive Director and CEO of Lutheran Bible Translators in 2023. A little over a year now. His leadership approach draws on his experience as a Bible translation advisor in Botswana. He and his wife Maya partnered with Vakalahari Community to translate and produce the Gospel of Luke in their previously unwritten language from 2008 to 2013. That's so cool. In 2013, rich began serving as a Regional Director for Southern Africa, facilitating partnerships with 24 language communities and Bible translation programs. Rich and Maya, with their five children, returned to the US in 2014, upon Rich's assignment to serve as a Director for Program Ministries for LBT Lutheran Bible Translators at the International Offices.
Speaker 2:Where are those offices, rich? Just curious. Concordia, missouri, concordia, missouri. Oh yeah, okay, yeah, that little pass through Concordia. I've been through that area so many times on the way to St Louis. So good, let's see. He serves as the Chief Operating Officer then from 2017 to 2022. He has his Bachelor's from Eastern Michigan University in 1996, mdiv from Concordia Seminary 2005. I think we overlap for one year there at the SEM and his PhD in Missiology from Concordia Theological Seminary, fort Wayne, in 2022.
Speaker 2:So, rich, thanks so much for being with us today. Man, how are you doing? Doing great. Glad to be here. Yeah, to put a timestamp on it, this is coming right on the heels of what I call Luther Palooza. We had so much fun together with a lot of mission-oriented Lutherans at the Best Practices Conference put on by Christchurch Phoenix every February. If you've not put that as a standing date on your calendar, you need to be there, and I don't care which side of the confessional-missional spectrum. You will be blessed, you'll meet people. The joy of Jesus is so present in that gathering. So, first opening question for this podcast so, rich, how are you praying? You've got this international kind of approach to the church and we're going to get into the work of LBT. But just as you look at the Americans, the United States of America Christian Church. How are you praying for Reformation, brother?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have been called to this role to lead an international ministry and yet it's always on my heart the church here in the United States and my own country and I think the thing I pray the most for as I look at our churches here is that to grasp the reality of pluralism existing in the United States and to be okay with that from the perspective of the church does not need to have a privileged position in society to do her mission.
Speaker 3:The church doesn't need to then become disoriented, disorganized or concerned when we feel like we've lost what we perceive to be a position of privilege. The church throughout the world, throughout history and through most of the world now, is not in a privileged position in society and does their work really well. So I guess it kind of I pray for the generations of leadership that come into and folks that are serving now to come to be okay with. We don't have to be privileged in society to be the church of Jesus Christ, and so we don't have to be fighting for something like that and be distracted from the mission of reaching people with the gospel and sharing the love of Christ and building authentic communities where people are included, forgiven, reconciled and sent.
Speaker 2:So good. I agree, I'm praying the same prayer. It appears as if in some pockets and we're both in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod we have listeners here that are beyond us, in different pockets of Christianity here in America and beyond, but it appears as if the kind of conflict is over. This is what I hear you doubling down on. Are we going to choose to be angry, concerned, fearful about our neighbor and secularism and pluralism, et cetera, the effects of postmodernism, or are we going to have the joy of Jesus and the early church that saw the fields ripe under the harvest, so many people who are pre-Christians on their way to Jesus? And this is I want to live with joy, rich. I think you do too. I don't want to live with fear and control. And yet there are some pockets, I'd say, in a number of different streams, where that really is the tension.
Speaker 2:We may define it as confessional Lutheranism or mission orientation, which the same size of the same coin. I mean we're confessing Christians, confess Christ and carry him crucified into the world. But man, regardless, I get kind of nihilistic sometimes. We got a little dash and the Holy Spirit is filling us. I want to live that dash, rich, with joy, knowing I'm going to see my Savior's face when I take my last breath and he's going to raise me from the dead on the last day. I want the posture of the church to be joy. Any response to that, though? Just the emotions of the church, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think that's exactly right. You mentioned the word nihilistic too. That's kind of how a lot of people that live in life, whether they realize it or not, is. There's just sort of a baseline level of sort of hopelessness and not recognizing that there's room for joy now. And the most effective way to be followers of Christ in a society that's really views everything more as like a commodity is to really be embracing our own story of a Creator, god, who made all things, who loves us, who is the source of all truth. That people will have to, you know, they'll have to account for whether they like it or not, but that there's joy in that, because that God just overflows with love and connectedness and reconciliation and invites us to all of that too.
Speaker 3:And then just one other thought that came to mind when you were saying. What you were saying is you know, the New Testament Christians could not have imagined a world where they could have any way to participate in their own self-governance. So we do have to grasp that that is. That is a factor that we have now in the United States that they didn't have, and yet so there's. There's a I would never say to not be engaged or interested in that stuff. But it also ultimately doesn't define who we are. And if it doesn't go the way we want or the way we think would be best, for whatever reason, it's not required to be the Church of Christ, right? So those are things that kind of come to mind.
Speaker 2:You're opening up a can of words now, Rich so so let's see, I love it.
Speaker 3:Let's, let's stay here. Yeah, no, no, no let's, let's stay here.
Speaker 2:So I think where the struggle is how old is your oldest child? Rich, twenty five, twenty eight?
Speaker 3:and then youngest he is 19.
Speaker 2:19. So, and I have three teenagers 17, 15 and 14. I think where the struggle is is seeing what's happening to our kids in the world right, and wanting to secure the appropriate amount of safety and discipleship. You could say catechesis for our kids before they are launched into the world, and right now, I think a lot of folks would say the world has just broken in where it should not break in, where we had a lot more. You could say safety and protection as we disciple our kids now, because which I think smart phones should be illegal until kids get to a certain age. It's just not moving in a good direction. So maybe a lot of our anger is just oriented at the infiltration of content that is hurting our kids and maybe leading them further away from Jesus, and then you can go down the gender struggles today and all that, Don't you think? The heart of this, though, is around discipleship of our kids. If you're getting right down, to it Rich?
Speaker 3:I think so, yeah, and because I think the fear is, if our kids are exposed to all these other various sources of input or media, are they equipped to deal with that? And you know, to be frank, maybe some folks are finding that what's currently been available to their kids for discipleship or catechesis hasn't proven to be able to help them, whether that storm of information I don't have answers to those things, but I think that's a big question and a big area of concern. But again then, to figure out, the hope of and the joy of the Lord is our strength, and our gospel speaks to this. And so the response of fear, I guess, is the concern rather than the acknowledging the problem and the opportunity and recognizing that our scriptures have a solution, our gospel has a solution.
Speaker 2:Yes, amen, and our kids are the Lord's and solid catechesis. Solid catechesis is our responsibility and we get to train them in the home to be missionaries out in the world. This is a beautiful gift of faith. So let's talk about LBT and your journey there. You're starting back in 2017. You've been in the infrastructure guts of the organization for a long period of time and then transitioning to kind of the CEO role. So tell that ministry story at LBT.
Speaker 3:Yeah, while I was still in seminary back in 2002, the recruiter came to the SEM and my wife, under false pretenses, set up an occasion for us to go visit those folks. She told me we were going on a date, but it was actually to see these recruiters. So Bible translation got on my radar early in my ministry formative process and ultimately we were called to a parish at a seminary. But we had actually then in that home congregation or that congregation was the home congregation to some Lutheran Bible translators, missionaries, and the senior pastor in that, in that congregation, was their father, so I was their pastor and so I just got an inside view of Bible translation ministry and the struggles and just really, maya, my wife and I felt the call to, in the right season, we should jump into this.
Speaker 3:And so, 2008, we made the move, started out so in the organization, if you talk about an entry level position, and we kind of started at the entry level.
Speaker 3:We were sent as missionaries to Botswana and now my background prior to seminary is in administration and leadership and so the Lord's always finding ways to use those skills.
Speaker 3:So, on the field, really bringing some organization work to the whole process there and, yeah, I don't know just as we, as we moved along here and as leadership changes were occurring, we were called into ministry in the region and then the last CEO transition I was asked to, we were asked to move back to United States and head up all the programs and again, that's. I'll tell you, to be honest, as a person with leadership background but a ministry heart, that was one of the hardest choices I ever made, because the greatest joy that I've ever had really is just being there on the front lines. And I would just say to frontline missionaries, frontline pastors, like I know it's hard work in those trenches, but that is the good stuff, man, and my, my, my comfort in the role that I have now is that I hope that through excellent administration and leadership, to be able to provide context for hundreds and hundreds of other people to get to do what I got to do rather than just doing it myself. And so that's.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's where I'm at. I love that. Let's go into cross culture intercultural ministry. This is I didn't. I didn't put this one down, but I mean you spent so much time. You spent so much time with 24 language communities. I mean that's extraordinary. So what are some of the principles? Top two or three principles for living mutually beneficial with folks who are from an entirely different context with your mutual love for for Christ in his, his word. How did you navigate those cross culture intercultural waters?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, through a lot of trial and error and you mentioned that we are coming off the heels of best practices. I gave a presentation there where I've just begun to try to put you know more common language around what it was. We did so and I hope this doesn't get too technical and boring. But my doctoral work focused on the translation work and project, but more of the community engagement, set up of it and kind of will borrow it and then repurpose the phrase called co-creativity and wanting to say, like in a in a multicultural situation, co-creativity invites, invites everyone to have a seat at the table, not and it's a step back from collaboration, which would be like to work together. Co-creativity is to imagine together what, what we will do, what's needed to have a common picture and the the in. In a nutshell, you know, years of learning basically showed that three things were important that if you're the, if you're the in a multicultural situation, if you're the person or represent the group that is perceived to have more power in the relationship. First of all, you just got to recognize and as Americans we don't like to to deal with that, but that's, that's a fact and if you are that group and if you're an American you are, then you are the one who has to step back and create space. You're the one who has to invite conversation and Create context for decisions to be made, and that that was a key learning is that you know it's one thing to say we're gonna open up the discussion, for that leads to direction, but then to encounter the need to create context for people to understand the question and the choices available to them and to wrestle with those that that creates the need for a lot of humility and a lot of of time and patience, and and you're like, on the one hand, trying to press into goals and Timelines and, on the other hand, you're you're saying, hey, we've got to create this situation where we're Looking for mutual humility and understanding. The person who has the gold doesn't get to make the rules you get to. You have to step back and if a decision, by collaboration in that or by co-creativity In that group, isn't what you thought it was gonna be, you have to give space to let that happen and let it work itself.
Speaker 3:I mean, that was one thing I found. I just an example the first local translator we hired in one project. There was a group of three that were tasked with making the final call between two candidates myself and one of the committee leaders from the language community and the Bible Society CEO in Botswana, and so there was two candidates, I chose one, the other two chose the other one and there was that moment where I was like I really don't think that's the right call. But if I try to leverage the power and what I have here, I will be making decisions for the rest of my career in this. In this end. That it will. They will get the message loud and clear that that co-creativity is is just an idea, not a reality, and so and the you know the rest of the story is that she turned out to be fantastic. The one that they chose and the project that one is the Shikalahari project For a decade was our best performing project, like out of the whole and the world.
Speaker 3:You know so, but that community drive and that community agency is so important. So just that humility and recognizing that Folks are capable and have a desire and drive to to speak into their preferred future. But sometimes you also got to give space and create context for that to happen.
Speaker 2:Rich, I can see why you're the CEO of LBT. I Mean that those principles, bro, are not just for international ministry, yes, there, for ministry here in the US, and when I was young I'm still, I'm 42 now, right but when I, okay, you get out your 26, your 30 right in there and you kind of have this A gallatory and approach, especially if you're hard-wired like like me and you're like everybody's equal. You know all this kind of stuff and it's true, on the one hand, this is the goal, is collective decision-making and working toward unity of choice. But unless we recognize the, the hierarchy I remember being confronted in a presentation super passion, I was like 28 or something like that. I'm talking about a ministry called the table, which I and I and many other young people help create in Colorado, right 15 years ago, and and telling the story, and this old wise gentleman of the back saying, son, I love your heart, but there are hierarchies, and I was like yeah, oh well, you know. And then he goes no, no, no, just listen, it's just a matter of will those on top lead like Jesus, yes, or will they lead, or will they lead like the world, yeah. And so the hierarchy has been inverted now for those who have the heart of Heart of Christ, and we must. I love that. If you have the power position at the table, you must work as hard as possible to bring out the voices of those who are on your team, and it does take work. You're gonna want to speak right if you, if you've got some drive, you've got some ideas, you're gonna want to play that power card. This is no.
Speaker 2:I've one of my biggest struggles and I'll get off this because I think there's if, if leaders at the highest level in the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod and every other Synod, had this posture, every other church body had this posture, how healthy would the church be if every pastor who has the privileged position of getting to bring the word to God's people every single Week, created that space who honor and respect the hierarchy? But this is the struggle between the priesthood of all believers and why are we here as the office of holy ministry? Right, rich, it's to release, equip, you know, to go forward. If Jesus, I'll get off this. I just this is so huge.
Speaker 2:If Jesus took the humble place, the God of the universe took the humble place for us on the cross and then Mobilized his followers to start a missional movement to reach people with the gospel who would have the same heart of Christ. This is Philippians 2. Right, he had every right to take the high place but humble himself even to the point of death and Through that, through that lowering, that's when the elevation comes. When I am weak, then I am, then we are strong, right as the body of Christ. So any response to that because I think you're touching on something that has American, united States of America implications today as well if we're gonna go forward United in mission.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that the what I find is that Maybe a lot of folks don't. If they hear terms like multicultural or intercultural, they think, well, that's something exotic and that's not applying to me. And the reality is that, whether you know it or not, your ministry, whatever that is, is already multicultural and you have to recognize the dynamics there and find ways to To you. If you don't, you're just in any. You're gonna basically perpetuate. Folks that are involved are the same folks and folks that could really be bringing something, a different angle on things or really Connecting in different ways, just will the quietly that you're not engaged, they'll realize or feel like there's a barrier in the ability to get involved meaningfully in this ministry, in this congregation, in this church. And that's that was actually a part of the.
Speaker 3:The presentation is say, when I say multicultural, I think that's that's a big, a big move for the church in general is just to recognize a Mission's, not something optional. Multicultural is not something exotic. We are. If you embrace the effects of pluralism, you got to recognize that this is all normative for you, not something exotic. That's a cool thing to look at, but it's something that you got to wrestle with now.
Speaker 2:And it's and it's messy. Yeah, it's messy, rich, right, yeah, but human beings, by nature we want to. We want short-term pleasure, but what we lose is long-term. What's coming is long-term pain. So you're gonna embrace the the pain and the struggle of multicultural Messy work, or, if not, pain is gonna come in the future for sure, as splinter groups start to start to work through any response to that, rich.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's, that's for sure, or you just lose the. I mean, okay, you know the Lord is gonna work through his church and that church is gonna look like however he decides. And in a way, whoever's saying I'm ready to, I'm looking and being attentive to where you're leading and I'm on board with that, Not I'm, you know, I've got an agenda and an institution. That's that I'm more focused on. And yeah, I think the, the multicultural thing is like most people think of that as, like you know, ethnic, something that I can look and see. Somebody clearly looks different than me.
Speaker 3:But I mean there are so many in today's society when you talked about information before, there are so many different things generations of different cultures, different parts of the United States of different cultures, different parts of different cities of different cultures and if you're only able to zero in and serve one particular subset of that, then you're just not all you could be. And if I mean, the Lord can still work through that too, but it will, just, you know, it'll reach its limitations. I guess and I'm always about like this is my bent is like there's always more possible. The gospel is always opening up more possibilities and this is just no limits. So dude.
Speaker 2:Wow, yes, so so much agree with you here. Okay, let's get into the nuts and bolts of the LBT story. Lutheran Bible translators. Talk about your big why. I know you've you've kind of been there's been some reset, some reboots over the last year. What would surprise people to hear about LBT and and what? What is the vision kind of that you're casting right now for that ministry?
Speaker 3:Yeah, lutheran Bible translators is. Well, people is a couple things. You know, I go to congregations and a pastor will introduce me and say Lutheran Bible translators. They do and like, well, I guess it's just in the name. You know it's Bible translation. Well, okay, that's. That is such a big thing.
Speaker 3:There's over 7000 languages spoken in the world today, so a lot of folks don't even begin to catch the impact of that or the scope of that, and about half of those have little or no scripture. And now there's all kinds of this gets. There's all kinds of factors in play. You know multilingualism and you can. You know folks and spoke speak more than one language. But at the end of the day, there's a substantial population of the world just under a billion people in the world that literally are not served well by the scripture that's available. It's it, that's. That's the fact of the matter, and we are. This is, I think, a thing that would surprise. If there's. You know the audience is listening. That's part of the Lutheran world, or Lutheran Church Missouri Center world.
Speaker 3:Particularly Lutheran Bible translators is, you know, one of many great Lutheran ministries doing work, and that's a thing I always come away from. Best practices, you know, within my mind is, like man, lutherans care so much about the world and about people that there is so much passion and drive, and you see it expressed in all these ministries doing things right, and so we're one of those, proudly. And yet we're also part of a collective impact alliance with 10 other Bible ministries the 10, or we're the 11th, but the 11 largest Bible ministries in the world that cover about 98% of Bible engagement and translation work right now, and collectively, we have the goal that every one of the world's languages would have some catalytic part of scripture in their language by 2033 and nine years. And and so, just you know, I usually get asked oh, what's the reality? I would say I just pulled out of the air. Well, 2018, when I was 15 years out, when we first agreed to be part of that, the data that was available it could pull together would say to reach the threshold of scripture access that you're talking about. Based on how things are right now and the way things go, it would take to the year 2175 to reach that level. We had 2033. Five years later, last fall, updated data, updated processes and workflows says now that the trajectory around would be 2050, which is still 17 years more than we want, but it's 125 years off in five years and so so that's, you know.
Speaker 3:So our big, why there is this? There's, there's a tension for the church? There is no. There's no more effective way for a Christian community to grow and go deeper than if they have access to scripture in the language they understand best.
Speaker 3:So in a way, that sort of goes without saying, but also it's. It's inherently and true. And yet there's also, you know, huge parts of Christianity in the world that are looking to go deeper with their scripture based ministry what you know, what they're doing, and access to tools to understand the scriptures better. And our organization finds ourselves in the tension between lining up with churches to help with that but also saying there are still folks in the world who don't have access to a single letter of scripture in their language. And it's my hope and prayer that that through this impact alliance by 2033, we can resolve part of that tension by we no longer have to say like there is somebody with absolutely nothing, and we can then reimagine what's it look like to be supporting the church around the world in meeting their evangelism goals, discipleship goals and their Bible ministry objectives.
Speaker 2:So that I mean this is amazing. How, how did you, how have you closed the gap? And I got, I got some questions too, because are we talking like all 66 books of the Bible you use like catalytic? Are these like smaller? Is this like the Psalms and John or something like that? So just talk about, and then I'm also, so I'm throwing a lot at you and you can respond to it, as also I've heard folks struggling with their oral cultures, their story, their narrative cultures and maybe not written word cultures. So how do you speak into all of that and how has that gap been closed so substantially in the last five years?
Speaker 3:man, this is awesome, praise God, yeah the, the, the catalytic scripture amount is in broad strokes, and this is like you got to put something on the board to work towards it. Any language community that has more than half a million people would have access to the 66 canonical books or of scripture. Any language community with just under half a million down to 5,000 speakers, the New Testament or an equivalent body of literature that best serves the church in that location. So essentially what that means from a, we use chapters as our, our marker. That's 260 chapters of scripture, whatever those may be. Any language community with less than 5,000 people have access to at least 25 chapters of scripture and whatever 25 chapters most serves the church best in that. And again, those are clearly those aren't like okay, everybody has everything they need at that point, but we believe that's catalytic to whatever happens next.
Speaker 2:And, um, yeah, so how you have regional directors and then I imagine you've got folks that are working down into all of those communities and then I imagine they're making the choices on what those respective chapters are. That would help introduce people to Jesus, basically.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's part of that whole concept of co-creativity. Again to how do you open up the space for the, the community, to be able to speak into? You know what, what parts of scripture would best serve them, and you know it's. That's where the creating the space for the conversation and even saying here are options is so important. Right, because they're not limiting with the options. But if you just kind of come point blank with that question, it's such a big question to jump into and and again, if I can speak to the power dynamics sometimes folks aren't used to happen options, if I can just be blunt, right, and and so just creating the space. So, an example of how this played out in two ways the Chakalahari project. They ultimately landed on the gospel loop, being what that would be translated first in their community that has had a quarter of a million people. So the, the goal for them would be a full New Testament. They landed on the gospel loop first and the short story, how we got there was they were used to traveling missionaries coming through their rural villages, setting up camp and showing the Jesus film, and it was in the national language, which you know is somewhat intelligible. And they basically said how do we get this in our language? And that's that's how we got there.
Speaker 3:You know well other other places. It's just based on what the church thinks, places where there's close contact to Muslim communities. The book of Proverbs is definitely in there as a place that you want to use as an entry point. Folks that are much more traditional religion. It really helps them to have access to some Genesis the book of Genesis, I mean and then a bridge there, because in Genesis you get a creation story. You get patriarchal folks that are very similar in like the way they conduct life and make decisions to the people there. So there's like oh man, these people are just like us, and then you get Jesus right, so you bring Jesus in to that. So there's many different places and cultures as there are those met. That many different answers and this is so extraordinary.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's like the book of Acts, yeah, it's like I see that you have many gods right Right in Athens. They're actually let me. Let me tell you about the one creator, god, who sent his son for us. At whatever angle it takes, I'll do whatever it takes to reach people with the story of Christ. So talk about how the difference between communal culture in many global Southern contexts and an oral culture how does, how does Bible translation kind of fit into that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so many of the places that are served or underserved with Scripture are oral languages, meaning there's there is little to no writing in those in those languages, and so the choice has to be made in terms of creating writing or working orally. And one of the ways that has has reduced the timeline in the last five years is just the continued refining of a process of Bible translation that's completely oral and creating tools and technology that facilitate essentially the capture of that. And it's a little more complex than just, you know, somebody talking into a microphone and you know there's the transmission of what does the text say? That the translator and translators are from the language community. I mean that maybe sometimes surprises folks too. We're not talking about, like you or me, going and learning the language and then translating for them, right? So then the information about okay, if somebody local to the community is translating a text, information about what that text says and means, has to be transmitted to them.
Speaker 3:If they're completely oral, there's methods now to translate, to transmit them, transmit that orally, have them, you know, speak a translation, have that translation be available in its oral form for checking and community feedback and discussion and, and ultimately I will say, most language communities. Eventually they're going to want a book. I mean, they see that's what you have right. But again, anecdotally, the very first translation work that I did with my team was the Christmas story, luke 2, and we printed little pamphlets with it and nobody would read it. All they did was argue about the way things were spelled in it because it has.
Speaker 3:There was, there was a writing system, but nobody really used it and they had ideas about writing. So we actually then just took and recorded exactly the same text and distributed. This was back in the CDs days, so we on CDs and everybody loved. I mean, it was exactly the same text, but so it sounded great, right so so the question is about if you've got an oral culture, working with the community to determine. So we don't like that. You don't make this choice from the outside. That's not co-creative. But working with the community to determine do oral Bible storing and translation methods meet the need to begin work here and and create texts that can then be made available in other media, including print media, if that's what's decided?
Speaker 2:It's so spectacular. Can we say with confidence that by you know, 2050 or whenever, that like gospel, cultural gospel, saturation will have occurred across the globe? For the most part, that it's very it'd be very unusual for at least a certain because there are smaller tribes, I understand that, but if they're a certain size community speaking group, there's a very real chance they'll have heard about, heard about Christ.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's spectacular to me, I would say at least the scripture texts would be available for that to be a possibility. You can't assume distribution, and I think that's one of our biggest growth areas in terms and maybe part of the reimagining in the post 2033 world. If that would be the, if the goal would be reached at that point is and not just waiting until then, but improved distribution of scripture, both on digital platforms and print, and just getting getting things in the right place and the evangelists and teachers and homes having access to that scripture. But yes, it is possible that a vast I mean that's the goal is a vast majority of the world's population would have access to scripture and, yeah, hopefully in the right hand so that gospel gets proclaimed.
Speaker 2:That's so exciting. I mean, talk about the global. I didn't send you this question, but as you look, and I'd ask you to paint, especially global south here, paint with a little bit of a broad brush. To summarize, talk about the leadership structures of the church as it begins to form small, small groups and becoming a little, a little bit larger. I'm very curious, and the reason I'm asking this is I'm very curious in the post-Christian context or pre-Christian context in the US, about the role of evangelist, the role of evangelist. So yeah, talk about the kind of leadership structures in global south.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there, there are several different expressions, of course, where and this is why I love being part of a collective impact alliance, because every organization brings a strength and a connection point. One of our niches right now is that there are, in several places in the world, lutheran church bodies that are the result of the mission work of those who came before us, that have have grown, become healthy and have sort of come in this generation to a missional awareness, like we are. We. It is our job to be in mission to, to disciple folks around us and and the language communities around us, and that's our niche. The Lutheran churches and Lutheran Bible translators and those structures. There can be, you know, some unexpectedly formal structures actually there, some of those mirroring traditional hierarchical structure in in the context where the church has developed, and some also, you know, for better or worse representing just the model of church that was brought to a particular area, and so those are important things to keep in mind and to work. You know, understand hierarchy and the church and the call to mission, and that's that's I. Honestly, churches that have a greater mission awareness are much you know. They are able to overcome some of this hierarchical distinction and and not be operating to try to preserve that or feel like, hey, I've got to make sure that I hold on to this. It's all about the mission first, right.
Speaker 3:And then there are lots of other places, and some of these we're working with, and some of these are our partners are working with, where there's a much less structured expression of the Christian church. You know, wherever two or three are gathered together, jesus says he is with them and that church is an ecclesia and assembly of people and yeah, so then the scripture they're available in. You know listening groups or folks that travel around with these audio machines that will play scripture and gather folks together and say, hey, let's talk about. And then some of the most captivating stories of people engaging with scripture, you know, happen in those contexts as well, where you just I sometimes listen to these stories and think about man, what would it be like to just be approaching scripture with, with no preconceived ideas, and just hearing it, letting it hit. You know, I guess some folks might consider that to be dangerous too, but but I just love some of the ways that that folks process that.
Speaker 3:One real quick example is the story where Jesus drives out the legion of demons from a demoniac into a herd of pigs and the pigs go down the hill, right. So it's a weird story from our cultural background. But there's a group who is, you know, listening to that story and then they, they get to discussing it and they're really zeroed in and focused on that herd of pigs like why, why would Jesus do that? And you come to, you know, thinking about the people. Well, this is exactly their life. Communal herds of pigs outside the village is like their lifestyle.
Speaker 3:So to hear a story about a whole village is entire herd of pigs go over a cliff and die is like the ruination of an economy for them, right? And? And so then they get to thinking and talking more about it, about this, this guy that's on the outside who's chained up, raking chains, everybody, everybody's afraid of them, and they have characters like that too in their, in their life and story and their conclusion to make a long story short short is that Jesus would rather we pay attention to and embrace folks like that, and if it took destroying a whole economy to bring that to our attention, that's what he would do. That was their takeaway from that story, right? And so the local expression of the church just became much more aware of caring for the folks that were marginalized mental health problems, things like that. I mean it's just, it's wild. I would never get that story.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so fantastic. I think that's probably a more correct contextual application.
Speaker 3:There's always something to learn from when folks are. You know, as the scripture becomes incarnate in more and more languages and cultures, it's this beautiful, faceted diamond that has so many angles on it, and you turn it, and here's another truth. And here's another truth, and it's just we have a lot to learn from the global church.
Speaker 2:It's like the book is alive, rich. So, okay, we're coming down the home stretch, let's. I could go in so many directions right now, but I can't have you on and not talk about policy governance. We're taking it. So, if you're listening, right now we're going from you're talking about pigs all the way to policy government and there's yeah, I love this approach. We've been working with this ministry for some time now and we're talking strict carver policy governance. And a shout out to Paul Zills and his work you are an LBT with our board is like the gold standard of working with, because you guys are just ahead of us as a ministry. So thank you for the hard work that you have done. But for folks that are unaware of what policy governance is and how you function then as a CEO around those policies, give a little bit of that journey into policy governance there, rich.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the organization just started. Paul used to be on our board so he helped facilitate some of this improvement for our board. But the journey into policy governance for us really what it did and what policy governance does in general I'm assuming your listeners are going to know just already but to some degree is our board got a level of clarity about what should happen as a result of this organization's existence, who should receive what benefit at what cost. And so they state that and basically then give now me in this case the responsibility and the freedom to make that happen by any means possible, aside from what they have excluded by limitation policies which are this is substantial sometimes, but I mean that's part of the deal. I mean, you know, that's that side of administration where it's like I'm glad I get to do this so other people can focus on doing ministry well.
Speaker 3:But how that's benefited us is if we've had substantial leverage and opportunity to see a very quickly changing world in Bible ministry and Bible translation ministry as well, and to have the freedom to adapt to that, to create space in our planning and budgeting even for innovation.
Speaker 3:That's, you know, almost lab like where we this is intentionally outside of work and we have to commit a certain amount of our resources and attention to that so that we can try stuff out and bring it into the mainstream if it's applicable. Policy governance gives us the freedom and flexibility to do all of that, because there's not a constant like, well, I better check in with the board about this and make sure they're on board. So that's been really helpful. I think that our current journey, which I'm really excited about too, is that this board is fantastic. I mean, they got the policy governance stuff down and that can lead to something that starts to feel like dispassionate governance, and so we've been able to take a step back and say look, how do we accomplish what we need to accomplish from a governance perspective and still have passion for the ministry and build the space for strategic vision and conversation and facilitate that as some give and take?
Speaker 2:And so that's the season where now, and it's been really rewarding- Well, the journey of high trust, high accountability, leader, if you like to lead through leveraging relationships toward personal gain, this is not for you. If you want to feel for like two to three years like I'm just getting smacked upside the missional face, that's what I felt like. Thank you, sir. Can I have another? Because we realized how far we had to go just to get our own house, just to get our own house in order. So the senior pastor limitation or CEO kind of limitations, they're going to dot every I and cross every T, and it's not just trust me, no, it's show me, show me the data. You can tell the stories for sure, but what is the data? What's the feedback you're getting from the customer?
Speaker 2:And then I think the beautiful invitation for a board and we're right at this stage, right now, having been in it about four years or so is to say, okay, we've got the reports, that we need the mechanisms, both to show that we're achieving the ends of the organization and staying within limit. Those mechanisms are there. Now what? And that's the big visioning, and that's where the board has to really get their head around. We have to engage the owners of the organization, those that are going from consumer to contributor with a more consistent, because we want to know are we hitting those ends? And here's the cool thing Some of our owners may have bigger vision than we even have as a board or as senior leaders. Oh my gosh, that's a sweet space, isn't it? Rich, it is, yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's the great opportunity and season we're in now is like the. If you do engage in this process, you have to endure a season of setting up the framework and the mechanics and nuts and bolts and then coming to a level of confidence like, hey, this thing works, we know, we built it, it works, and now we can lift our heads and be looking out and yeah, then that opportunity to connect with and even the thing I really like about it too is it makes you ask why, it makes you prove why am I doing what I'm doing? What's the value here? And once you get into the management space, then I mean you're just compelled to say we have vision and we have values here and and we didn't just make those values up here we are acting on behalf of those who have sent us to act on their behalf, and everything cast a point back and tie back to those in some way, and I think that's really powerful and unifying.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, so if anybody wants to hear more, I think governancecoachorg or just look up governancecoach if you're interested in that. Right, rich and Paul. Zills. Paul Zills has been a great partner and Paul is rigorous Again fair warning. Do not engage this unless you're ready for some leadership rigor. So all right. Last question I love talking about habits, especially morning rhythms. You've got a jacket on there if you're not watching on YouTube. But what's the jacket there? Adidas, you were an athlete in some of your runner. What's the background?
Speaker 3:As a Missouri State University. I am a runner, and although, yeah, I'm a runner, I should just say that I picked it up when I lived in Botswana. It's a fun story there and I find that it just helps me to stay focused.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I think it's part of like a mental health exercise. To be honest with you, it just clears my mind. It's a good place to disconnect. I've added some stretching yoga stuff some way to try to get into do something on a daily basis and I travel a lot, so it's always the challenge.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that's one of the habits I guess is to take care of your body in some way, and that can be a hard word for some folks if you feel like that's really inaccessible, but the thing that got me started was just the small deposits over a long period of time yield a result and if you have it, making those small deposits is important.
Speaker 3:There's no reason or no need to regret or lament that you haven't been making small deposits because you can't. If I haven't run in three years, I can't run three years worth of running this week. I just can't do it. And it's the same as like if I don't sit down and have dinner with my family every night as a habit we had and that had results over a long period of time, but I can't decide like, well, we haven't been doing that for years, so we're just gonna go up the block to every restaurant and eat a meal together, like it's not possible, right? So my point is I think that small deposits just begin with something small and do something every day, and if you lose, if you miss a couple of days, okay, it's never too late to start over, just like all of life's, just like the gospel, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, no shame, jesus loves you. You are his child and now going a journey of the life that's truly life, taking care of your temple. I'm a big. The book called the Miracle Morning. Have you heard of the Miracle Morning, rich? No, no, so an acronym. I like to just close with this acronym. It's helpful.
Speaker 2:Savers is the acronym, and high performing executives this is research-based do these six things in some way, shape or form. And again, they may not do them all, but they're rotating around these six habits. So, savers, it's now. I'm not gonna. Oh, silence, silence, this is good silence.
Speaker 2:So some element in the morning of meditation. There's affirmations and this is just where gratitude is. Lord Jesus, thank you for this day. There's visualization. How well am I gonna show up today? This is making Savers. Okay, visualization, looking at that calendar and I, like this morning, is I'm doing it. I'm like man, I get to hang out with Rich today. I've never got to hang out with Rich. I'm pumped to hang out with Rich. This is gonna be awesome. You've not. The spirit in you is not disappointed by the way.
Speaker 2:Exercise E we're moving our bodies, reading, we're reading, we're taking something in every single day and then the S is scribing or journaling, which that is the new thing that I have added this year and I just love it. I actually write at the end of the day, and then again I'm like, as I look over the start of this year, I'm like four out of five, four out of seven days a week, and so it's not, you know, every single night, but it's right there by my bedstand and here's all I do, here's all I do, the three things I'm grateful for today, I'm thankful for, I'm thankful for, I'm thankful for, I'm thankful for. And then, as I go to sleep, I'm excited about, I'm excited about, I'm excited about. And then you can look over time man, are you a scribe, are you a journaling guy at all?
Speaker 3:Yes, I have a process also of reading scripture, usually a chapter or so, pick out a verse that stands out and gives some reflection on what I hear God saying. How do I think that applies to my life? What's a prayer that arises in response to that? And again, I just say to the there's so many folks who are kind of all or nothing when it comes to habits. So do I do that every day? Do I sometimes look and say, man, it's been a couple of weeks since I did that, yeah, and I'm gonna do it now. I'm not gonna say, well, I guess that wasn't any good and so, but certainly being in scripture every day, that's critical and even just a small part. I mean, god's word is alive and Luther said that it always brings this isn't his large catechism, third commandment. It always brings new understanding, always brings he says I'm paraphrasing now but a fresh word. Basically, right, there will always be something there for you.
Speaker 2:And I think, that's true. Oh Rich, this has been spectacular. People wanna connect with you and LBT. How can they do so?
Speaker 3:You can find our website at lbtorg and, yeah, you can email me. We try to keep it simple since my last name is complicated, so it's just Rich at lbtorg you can. I'd love to answer emails, general emails, info at lbtorg. We're on Facebook, instagram, twitter, got a podcast, essentially translatable. She can find out on any platform. So, yeah, love to connect and dig in and walk together in mission.
Speaker 2:Thanks for the time, rich. This has been a fantastic conversation. This is American Reformation Sharing. It's, karen. Please like, subscribe, comment wherever it is you take in podcasts like this, and we pray that the joy of the Lord is your strength today as you go about your day, noticing Jesus who is your leader, your head, and following him in all things, specifically getting the word in written and spoken form out into people's ears, into their hearts, for salvation. Jesus is the hope of the world and the church, therefore, is the hope of the world. It's a good day. Go on, make it a great day. Thanks so much, rich.
Speaker 3:Amen thanks, it was great to be here.
Speaker 2:Thanks bro, peace All right.