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American Reformation
We believe the American church needs reformation. To go forward we must go back. This podcast will explore the theology and practices of the early church and other eras of discipleship multiplication and apply those learnings to our post-Christian/secular American culture. American Reformation is a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective. Follow us at uniteleadership.org. We consult, bring together cohorts of congregations for peer to peer learning, and certify leaders for work in the church and world.
American Reformation
Igniting the Next Generation: Mobilizing College Students for a Modern Reformation with Brian Smith Sr
I do ministry in a denomination that struggles to engage college students and young adults. If you’re listening and you’re an LCMS Lutheran I pray you have an open heart to the Hope Church story. We have much to learn from our brothers and sisters in other Christian faith traditions. PLUS, I have come to know and highly respect my guest Brian as a partner in spreading the Gospel in the valley and beyond over the past 10 years.
Discover how to ignite a transformative fire in the hearts of college students and young adults with Brian Smith Sr., the inspiring leader of the Hope Church Movement. We're not just talking about a Sunday meet-up; we're talking about a revolution in the American Christian Church that begins with our future leaders on college campuses. Brian and I share a vision of these vibrant individuals as recruitable, trainable, and sendable forces, capable of carrying the torch of faith to new frontiers. This eye-opening dialogue examines the critical gap in biblical understanding and the potential for a new reformation sparked by the same Holy Spirit fire that fueled the early church's expansion.
We then navigate the intriguing intersection of discipleship and leadership, confronting a common myth: that today's college students are indifferent to the gospel. The reality? They're open and receptive, as proven by the success of campus outreach programs. We dissect the journey from fresh converts to disciples who multiply, revealing the heart of true leadership as servanthood. Every listener is called upon, regardless of their ordained status, to embrace personal evangelism as a duty to actively share God's word and cultivate spiritual growth among our youth.
As we wrap up, we explore how EPIC experiences—those that are Experiential, Participatory, Image-rich, and Connected—forge unforgettable and transformative encounters for young adults. Laughter, joy, and authentic community become our allies in this mission. We close with a stirring call to action: to equip and inspire a generation to spread the gospel with an authentic zeal. Join us as we share anecdotes, historical parallels, and practical steps to engage and empower those called to this vibrant mission field.
Hello and welcome to the brand new American Reformation podcast. We long to see the wider American Christian church fall more in love with Jesus by learning from the practices of the early church and other eras of discipleship multiplication. We want to hear from you, make sure you comment and leave a review, wherever you're watching or listening, to tell us what God is doing in your life or how you feel about today's conversation. Lord, have your way in us. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the American Reformation Podcast, tim Allman. Here I get the privilege of being a part of the Unite Leadership Collective. I'm a pastor at Christ Greenfield and I'm honored to be a part of the conversation in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, a denomination that one of our recent podcasts on Lead Time with a former president of our synod talked about the rapid decline and some of the reasons for the rapid decline in our denomination. I'm doing this podcast today, and really all of them, to pray for a new day, that the same Holy Spirit that lit a flame and sparked growth on that Pentecost day this is being released around Pentecost would give fire to those of us in our tribe and we've got a lot to learn, especially as we engage college students and young adults. And so if you're listening and you're an LCMS Lutheran, I pray you have an open heart to the Hope Church story. Now we have much to learn from our brothers and sisters and other Christian faith traditions. Plus, I have come to know and highly respect my guest as a friend and partner in the gospel in the Phoenix Valley and beyond, as their church movement has boomed by the grace of God over the past 10 years. I want to introduce you to Brian Smith Sr. He is the founding pastor of Hope Church Movement, a collegiate-focused church planning movement reaching now this is amazing 24 college campuses all across the Southwest. Praise God.
Speaker 2:For over 35 years, brian has helped students find and follow Jesus, walk in freedom and live on mission. In the name of Jesus, brian and his wife Wendy. She's sweet man, this guy. He married way up. She's a real deal, yes, she is. They live in Mesa, arizona, have three adult sons, two daughter-in-laws, three great, great granddaughters not great, just granddaughters three granddaughters and a golden doodle named Kabob man. That sounds like Kabob. Am I saying that right? How did you come up with kebab? Kaibab, okay, well, how'd you come up with Kaibab?
Speaker 3:Kaibab. You got me saying, bob, it's Kaibab, it's the Kaibab Trail. She was born on the day I did the rim to rim hike.
Speaker 2:Oh, good for you. I should have known. Yeah, I've never done that. Someday, someday I've done, I've done down and out, but not rim to rim. So so much fun. Hey, brian, before we get into this, how are you doing, man? You feeling good, feeling great. Thanks for having me on. This is going to be fun. So a standard question on this podcast how are you praying for reformation in the American Christian Church, brian?
Speaker 3:Well, before I get into that, just thanks for having me. Pastor Tim and you know what you guys are doing great work at Christ Greenfield. I just got to say this to all your listeners and watchers. However, this is being produced. I was at my dermatologist appointment about a year ago and he's telling me about how much his son loves this school he goes to and I go. What school is that? He said Christ Greenfield Lutheran School, and I'm like that's my bro. He's doing great work. So thanks for your ecumenical heart, your salt and light in this city. It's an honor to be a co-laborer with you here in Phoenix, yeah the joy is mine.
Speaker 3:Here's what I'm praying about and I guess, by way of introduction, I'm not a philosopher, tim. I'm not a theologian, I'm not a scholar. I just consider myself a practitioner who's been clarifying the gospel on college campuses for over three decades, and so I'm believing for reformation and how the church really views the next generation on college campuses. You know, everybody knows that college students want to stand for something right. I mean, look at the influence in our country right now with all the all the stuff, protests and everything going on. But unfortunately, I don't think we're seeing the college campus accurately. For example, when I say the phrase mission field, I ask people what do you think of? And most people think of an unreached people group in a third world country. Those are definitely legitimate mission fields that need to be reached, are definitely legitimate mission fields that need to be reached. But at Hope Church Movement, we believe that the most overlooked strategic mission field in the world is right in our own backyard the 20 million college students of America. So college students are the most recruitable, trainable and sendable people in the world.
Speaker 3:I remember this has really impacted me this quote from Martin Luther when he said that he was afraid that universities would prove to be the gates of hell unless we diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures. So it's like he was kind of saying whatever you do, don't forget about it, don't overlook college students. I think he was prophetic. We've interviewed, as a ministry, 360,000 college students on 60 campuses across America. Here's what we've discovered that 96% of college students don't have a biblical understanding of how to have a relationship with Jesus. The Barna Group discovered the same thing in their research a few years ago. They said that college students in America are an unreached people group and that only 4% are biblically literate. So unfortunately, the church at large has really lost the importance of reaching the next generation, especially college freshmen. So when we talk about changing the world and changing culture, the reality is, if we want to do that, we got to change the college campuses, because that's really where the future leaders of our nation are at.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm praying for Dude, it's so good. And I think the narrative today is college kids. I mean, in light of this is timestamp 2024, Palestinian, Israeli, kind of stuff, and it's just so negative. And then you've got a lot of folks that say, well, they're all being indoctrinated and the secular pay, you know all this kind of stuff. Hey, what's new? Man? Satan is having a heyday. He's always. He's always, you know, roaring around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour. So we shouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 2:So does the church just kind of say, well, yeah, university is awful, these kids these days. Or do we say, let's get, let's get after it, let's go love them, let's go find them? You know, and and to do so, you, you have been so, so creative in the way you've engaged college students. You've met them where they're at, You've recognized their felt needs and you've cast vision for them being a part of something huge, which is the mission of Jesus, his desire, the kingdom of God, God's desire to get all of his kids back, all of his kids back. Why would he go over a generation of kids that are in college? There's no way he would. And you're answering that call right now. So tell us about the Hope Church movement a little bit Brian.
Speaker 3:So thanks, by the way, that was such a compliment. I appreciate that. Hope is a non-denominational, collegiate focused church planting movement which is kind of an anomaly in the body of Christ. There are some other collegiate focused church movements around the country that I've actually built on the shoulders of some great men Salt Company out of Iowa, grace Point, which is now Acts 2, that started at UC Berkeley, resonate Church Movement in Washington State and the Collegiate Church Network that started in the Midwest. But in many ways, like I said, we're kind of an anomaly because we're not a community church with a college outreach or college service. We're a collegiate-focused church. We believe that we're called to fill the Great Commission on college campuses and their surrounding cities. So we have people of all ages and stages of life in our church because we really think that it takes all generations to reach the next generation. And one of the things we do through the Campus Changer Network, which we started five years ago, is we help community churches reach universities in cities near them. We're working with a church in Colorado, one in Nebraska, one in Florida and, of all places, tim one in Ireland.
Speaker 3:So a little bit about our demographics. 60% of our church members were saved through our ministry. 55% of our attendance on Sundays are guests and a majority are college students. Many aren't Christians. They're de-churched, unchurched or unfamiliar with the gospel. We believe college students are called the lead in the local church, so we really have built leadership pipelines. We have 340 students and graduates on our leadership team. Eighty-seven percent of our church is under 30 years old and we have 113 staff and interns in church planting residence. So our leadership team, with all that concentration, leads 950 Bible studies across all of our campuses every month, and so we're definitely just a position to reach a lot of people. We're basically missionaries to the college campus and we're excited to be expanding to Texas. Next school year. We're sending a team to reach 90,000 students at UT, austin and Texas State University.
Speaker 2:You started out saying I'm not a philosopher, theologian, you are a theologian. You've studied the word of God, don't sell yourself short. But more than that, you've studied the way of Jesus and the release of Jesus. We got if you hear a bell in the background, we got chapel starting right now Kids are coming to hear about Jesus. It's so, so good. But you've got this leadership development pathway pipeline. Whatever you want to say that a number of young people give me and this is kind of going off a little bit, but give me like I know your kids have been involved in this a little bit. But give me like I know your kids have been involved in this, and so what does that look like? A little bit more of how you raise people up and send them in. They're doing Bible studies, et cetera, but what is the intention around the training? I'd love to just hear just a little bit about that.
Speaker 3:Well, we'd have to dive in a bunch here, but just quickly, we really make a distinction. That leadership is about service right, and so you know the greatest leader is a servant and that discipleship is about obedience to the last thing God told us to do. So we're really making disciples and we're raising up leaders. But here, have you ever noticed this? In the body of Christ it's possible, and this has been in our church as well it's possible to be a leader but not really be a disciple.
Speaker 3:So we are really more concerned about, are you a disciple? So we have a discipleship pathway that we've discovered or developed really developed with some other help from people that takes them from the point of decision for Christ all the way to a multiplying disciple. Then we also have a leadership ladder that we do, taking them from a friend all the way to a church planter. So we emphasize discipleship and along the way we give them opportunities to lead and when they're faithful we just kind of raise them up to the next level.
Speaker 2:It's great. That's it. It's so good. So what is? Let's get detailed about the kids on campuses today. What is one thing that the average adult Christian does not understand about college students, college kids in 2024?
Speaker 3:Well, I mentioned a little bit earlier, we've engaged about 360,000 students on 60 campuses and 96% of students don't know the gospel. But here's the good news On every campus we go to, 30 to 40% of college students are interested in learning more about the gospel. So what people don't know is the fish are still biting. Throw away your postmodern books. Throw away the lies that people have changed so much. Listen, people have changed, but not their heart, and when people love them and tell them the truth, they're getting saved at the same rate. They were 35 years ago when I started. So that's my survey over 35 years and, by the way, it's been the best year of ministry yet.
Speaker 3:Our team engaged about 50,000 new students, led 6,500 Bible studies. We had 2,000 gospel appointments, tim, which are where we sit down, ask someone their story, tell them our story and share the gospel story. We had 2,000 gospel appointments and prayed with 700 people to surrender their lives to Jesus. So every day, the classes were in session, bro. This year, four people decided to follow Jesus every single day. And so here's an amazing thing it took us 14 years to see a thousand students surrender their lives to Jesus. It took another four years to see our second thousand, and in the last year we've seen close to 700 get saved. So that's on 24 campuses that we're reaching, and so a lot of people think Jesus.
Speaker 3:You know that the Jesus movement that we've been hearing about they made a movie about started one day when the Holy Spirit just like fell and everybody thousands of hippies started getting saved and stuff. Well, it was definitely a work of the Holy Spirit. But what really happened? As I've talked to friends of mine that were there one in particular, pastor Mark Buckley he said that one person started following Jesus and that person went and got their friends and shared the story of what happened to them. Those friends told their friends it kept going, kept growing. So I just want people to stop listening to people who say that nobody in this generation wants to hear about Jesus. It's just not true. People are responding to gospel at the same rate they were 35 years ago. We just got to go tell our stories and start fishing.
Speaker 2:Yes. What's so good about that? There's so many things. There's hope there. For those of us that kind of live with a pessimistic. You know, as you get older as a follower of Jesus, it's really easy to look at the world and get grumpy. Brian, you're growing up into Jesus and we have the hope of the resurrection when he returns and we have the call to make disciples. Who make disciples today. It really, as I hear your story, I mean it's not simple disciples today. It really, as I hear your story, I mean it's not simple. It takes effort and intention and the work of the Holy Spirit and trust and time, but the flywheel effect takes place and we can see a new flywheel effect take place in a number of different denominations and movements within the American Christian church. And that's what I'm, that's what I'm praying for. This is so.
Speaker 2:I come from a Lutheran background, brian, and one of our primary focuses of doctrine is is passive faith? All right, so you do nothing to make yourself right before God. You don't choose him, he chooses you Right. So there's this passivity, but for us as as Lutherans, a lot of times we can end up this passivity. But for us as Lutherans, a lot of times we can end up well, I don't do anything anyways. So, like telling folks the gospel, well, it's the Holy Spirit's work, so we'll see. And no plant the seed, god's the one that's going to make it grow. For sure, I preached, apollos Watered, but God gave the growth. There was still proclamation that took place.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we wouldn't use necessarily word, all these decisions for Jesus. What we would say is all of these students got baptized. All of these students and I know that's a major part of your like, they're yes, do you want to be baptized? Have you heard the word of God and responded to the word of God in faith? Here's the water. Let's go. The Ethiopian eunuch that's what we need today More and more.
Speaker 2:But Philip is carried along by the Holy Spirit. It comes upon a guy. How can I understand this word unless someone explains it to me? Could we have a movement of proclaimers? This is just faithful to the word of God and for us in our tribe there are some who believe pastors are the only ones, the ordained ones are the only ones who are the proclaimers.
Speaker 2:Give me a break. What are we talking about here? This is ridiculous. There were so many women and men who were on fire for the Lord, and they were not all called to be the ordained. No, they were just people who'd been baptized, claimed by the gospel of Jesus, and they could not help but proclaim the one who'd called them out of darkness into a marvelous light. You get me going, man. We need to learn from movements like yours and there needs to be an open-handed release of the titles. And who can do what when, nah, you're just training up the willing, working with the willing, and, as the Holy Spirit gives kind of affirmation, you're saying here's your next step, leader, here's your next step. And, oh, and, if you miss on discipleship, if you miss and when I hear discipleship I hear the character of Christ If you miss on the character of Christ, the humility of Christ, the fruit of the spirit being shown in your life, you're going to miss on absolutely everything, everything else.
Speaker 2:So that's where it starts. And then here am I send me and we'll see. We'll see what. We'll go on this divine adventure and see what the Lord wants to do. That's a compelling vision, I believe for for a lot of young people today. A life filled with not depression and despair or lack, but they got ample meaning and purpose centered in in the Missio Dei, the mission of God. Yeah, ok, any response to that? I'm sorry, going off.
Speaker 3:I think we need more baptisms, but not more eunuchs. That's how I would respond.
Speaker 2:Facts. Okay, that's a classic Brian Smith response. We can agree on that, to be sure. All right, one of the biggest issues for college students today is loneliness. Does anybody see me, love me, care for me? I loved your book Winning the Battle to Belong. What are college freshmen initially looking for when they come to college? It's a great question, you know me. I loved your book Winning the Battle to Belong. What are college freshmen initially looking for when they come to college?
Speaker 3:It's a great question. You know. Over the years, tim, especially the last five years or so, other pastors and ministry leaders have kind of been saying would you just write down some of the things you guys are doing? I was a little bit reluctant, but finally did it. And so let me start by sharing some of my story.
Speaker 3:When I first got to campus 40 years ago don't tell anybody, tim 40 years ago, in 1983, my parents were focused on how I behaved. Get this. Most of the campus ministries at the tables I walked by were focused on what I believed. But there were two guys who were different, because they were focused on what I was really thinking about, which was where do I belong? Those two guys were some of the best evangelists I've ever met, but they weren't campus missionaries, they were members of a college fraternity. So here's what happened Within three days of moving into my residence hall, these two guys knocked on my door. They knew my name. They knew that I went to Brophy High School and I played varsity basketball. They were there to recruit me. They had done their homework. They knew my name, man. That alone I was like what.
Speaker 3:They invited me to a party and I went to this party. It was unlike I'd ever been to, and instantly I felt like I belong. So my first three days set my course for the next three years, away from God. You see, it was that first weekend, first 72 hours, that I threw out what I believed. I behaved in ways that I never thought I would all because I desperately wanted to belong.
Speaker 3:In fact, one of the primary reasons that 70% of students raised in the church throw out what they believe in college is because they're in a battle. It's called the battle to belong, and whoever wins that battle wins them. So it's not, you know, it's not just us saying that, though. Social scientists are writing about belonging more than ever before. Even universities are creating new positions called the Dean of Belonging Harvard, purdue, pepperdine it's happening all over. So at Hope, we define the battle to belong as the internal crisis that students experience when they leave. Family and friends arrive on campus for the first time and are desperate for connection. So I believe winning the battle to belong is a key ingredient to reaching college students, because many times on college campuses, winning the battle to belong precedes and paves the way to winning the battle to believe in Jesus. In other words, we've got to help students belong even before they believe. Does that make sense? It does, I mean. So I'm not saying students can't believe in Jesus before they belong to a Christian community, but in my experience it's not the norm.
Speaker 3:And, by the way, in the Gospels we see that Jesus engaged in both the battle to belong and the battle to believe. In John, chapter one, he was all starting his ministry. Andrew and John were following him and Jesus asked what do you want? And he said where are you staying? And he said come and see. That was the first recorded invitation from Jesus in the New Testament.
Speaker 3:See, that was the first recorded invitation from Jesus in the New Testament. It's like he was saying you know, amen, you know, you just come and hang out with me, let's go do this, let's do life, let's hang. And so then, two years later, he said come, and after come and see. He said come and die. And that was when he revealed himself as the Christ. That says right. Philippi invited them to take up their cross and follow him. So think about that. Two years after he invited them to come and see, he invited them to come and die. So I submit for us on college campuses come and see is about winning the battle to belong and come and die is about winning the battle to believe.
Speaker 2:It's so, so good. A lot of times in our tribe we think very, very small and again it goes back to I don't want to get in, it's not my work. You know, you're going to make disciples of all nations. Jesus cast a pretty big vision Right and the Apostle Paul lived into that and the other apostles. So big is not bad. We should dream big. What would you say to someone who says your events are overly attractional and you're selling out on sharing the gospel? What would you say to that?
Speaker 3:person. Wow, I would say thank you for your feedback. Come and see, come and join us. Yeah, you know we. We don't do events just to be big. All of our events are designed to lead to authentic relationships where we can clarify the gospel. For example, we had 2,000 at our last Survivor Weekend event and we had almost 2,000 personal gospel appointments throughout the year.
Speaker 3:So sitting down with someone and asking them their story, sharing the gospel story with them, is really, I found, much more effective than even doing a crusade where a bunch of people raise their hand or come forward. But I'm glad you brought up that question because in order to reach college students, we first have to understand that there's a stigma about Christians on campus, and the stigma is that Christians are not interesting, not relevant, not fashionable, not funny, not intelligent. In other words, christians are just not. In fact, a recent statistic from Barna says that 84% of unbelievers in their late teens and 20s have a negative impression of Christianity and, whether we want to admit it or not, we as Christians have something to do with that. Now, there are other factors that contribute to the stigma.
Speaker 3:There's a spiritual enemy, but if we're really honest, sometimes as Christians we've promoted the stigma ourselves in the way we present ourselves, the events, we produce those kind of things.
Speaker 3:So if we want to win the battle to belong which is what we call that crisis, when students step foot on campus for the first time, away from family and friends, and they want to belong so bad, they want to connect with people so bad that we got to stop doing things as the church that promote the stigma and start doing things that break the stigma. So I'd hope we do things. We do things through impact events and which, from a military perspective, is like bombs in the air, and then we also do things through relationship, relationships, authentic relationships. We're kind of like boots on the air, and then we also do things through relationships, authentic relationships, where it kind of like boots on the ground. So I like to say that as Christians, we should be the most fun-loving, life-giving, engaging people around, and if we're serious about reaching college students, the church should have the most excellent epic impact events because we serve the living God who created the universe and Tim rose from the dead.
Speaker 2:So the question.
Speaker 3:Here's what's really bothered me for decades. Why are so many other organizations better at recruiting college students in the church of the living God? That's why we're committed to breaking the stigma and being better than the world at reaching college students. That's why we do our epic impact events.
Speaker 2:So good. So what other organizations would you give as like just these people are? They're outside the church but they're just killing it in terms of engagement of kids? Can you give us an example or two?
Speaker 3:Sure, Fraternities, athletics, credit card companies, you know, recruiting. The college campus is a recruitment center and we as a church have been pretty lame for the most part, and and so and this hit me years ago when I realized, man, there's things I don't even want to go to that Christians are putting on because it's so lame. And then I had to. When I became a pastor, I'm like what kind of stuff am I going to put on? It's like Christian movies. Some of them are good, but most of them are kind of like ah, it's a little bit different than why can't we get better? Why can't we do the Michelangelo artwork where everybody comes and wants to look at it, as opposed to? I know where this is headed. There's going to be conversion scene two thirds of the way through. I mean, it's just everything, come on. So we do pre evangelism with our events for the most part that's so good, man, we're committed.
Speaker 2:We're committed right alongside you to having epic, and I'm not afraid of the word attractional. Jesus was attractive. The crowds were attracted to Jesus. The cross was not attractive, let's be honest. Right, everybody fell away from Jesus. But the resurrection, holy Spirit, inspired reality of this new life, the new kingdom. The king is on the throne. So there's going to be suffering, there's going to be trial. We're not getting. This isn't a, for us, a theology of glory which says come and follow Jesus in all of your life and all of your struggles. We're going to know it's real, it's raw, it's messy. We're committed to telling better stories about the God who steps into the mess with us. Anything more to add to that, brian?
Speaker 3:Yeah, his ministry, Andrew and John, come and see where I live. Come and see Some theologians think two years later is when he said come and die, take up your cross and follow me at Caesarea Philippi. So what did he do in the meantime? He lived with them, he had adventures, he ate with them. So we're going hey, the fall semester when freshmen show up, we're saying come and see. And then throughout the fall we begin to bring the gospel to bear that, hey, you got to take up your cross if you really want to follow Jesus. But come on, man, a little sugar helps the medicine go down. I mean, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what Survivor Weekend is, bro. I mean, you've talked about it a couple times. Take us deeper and tell us about Survivor Weekend and the impact that it's had. It's so, so good.
Speaker 3:Survivor Weekend and the impact that it's had. It's so, so good. Thanks, bro. So Survivor Weekend is our premier event. We put it on the beginning of each fall semester, a couple of weeks into the year, and even though our church puts it on, we tell everybody it is not a church camp, it's an adventure weekend and that's some students say it's the best weekend they've had in their college career. So we all travel to 160 acre camp to compete.
Speaker 3:There's all these tribes that we form. We tell people choose your tribe before your trail. So they get on tribes, face paint champs, the whole thing based on their campuses, their areas on campus. They have a weekend of fun with no regrets, and so they're on a tribe and I kind of like to say it's a mixture of survivor. They're on a tribe and I kind of like to say it's a mixture of survivor, tough mutter, with an EDM concert thrown in. And so last year was our biggest survivor weekend event. There were 10,000 meals served, 8,000 volunteer hours, 2,000 students and volunteers registered, 330 tents were filled with six students each and 22 college campuses were involved. So here's a cool statistic that 70% of the students who attend Survivor eventually come to church or connect groups. So it's an effort to connect with people and bring them into our culture, our community, with the hope that we could then share the gospel with them.
Speaker 2:So with that, check out this video from Survivor Weekend. This is going to blow your mind. Take a look.
Speaker 4:When I was first joining Survivor, my friend sent me the video to give me an idea of what it was, and as soon as I watched it I was like I'm sold. I'm so here, and everything that you see in the video is exactly what you would see in Survivor. The only thing that's different is you actually get to feel it.
Speaker 6:Personally, I've been trying to keep to myself more as I kind of go through college, just because trying to find my people has been frankly exhausting, whether or not, like you're a go-getter or charismatic or whatever, being out here chanting for the same people, you're going to find your tribe. It's like a whole family and it's because, like most of the people in my tribe, I met not even like less than a week ago and like we're already like family.
Speaker 7:Well, I've already found my people, like I know for a fact that the people I've met, especially people who go to my school, I am gonna have these friends throughout the year and I'm gonna have these faces on campus, and so just knowing that they have my back already is just such a great way to start the year and I'm just so encouraged going into the school year about it because of the relationships I've already built.
Speaker 5:Being with like a bunch of guys. I didn't know who they were. They were just strangers a couple days ago and now it feels like they're my brothers. It's honestly insane. It's a great way to make friends and a great way to just talk to people. Anyone who would even consider being on the fence about it should definitely do it, because they won't regret it. I could promise you that all right, that's so exciting.
Speaker 2:um, you quote tim elmore EPIC formula for engaging young adults. Brian Please and EPIC is an acronym Please walk us through what EPIC looks like in young adult engagement.
Speaker 3:You've got Tim Elmore, the CEO of Growing Leaders, research students in this generation. He describes them as an EPIC generation. Epic is E, which stands for experiential, in other words, they're looking for memorable experiences. P stands for participatory, meaning they want to be part of something bigger than themselves. I stands for image rich, meaning they're very visual. And then C stands for connected, meaning the more we can stop lecturing them and start connecting with them, the better.
Speaker 3:So the bottom line on every college campus is that every student wants to have fun and makes friends fast, and if we as the church don't have something epic that we're excited to invite them to, we're just getting into the stigma. So over the last 20 years our movement has produced impact events like comedy shows, fashion shows we called it Sun Devils Wear Prada at first it was epic Pink to Purpose events, where former Victoria's Secret model comes and shares her story of leaving the industry to follow Jesus. We have men's events, where hundreds of men come together to talk about biblical manhood as we camp, compete and Tim most importantly consume large amounts of meat. And we do all that, all that's to capture the hearts and minds of college students, giving them an opportunity to connect with our community and compel them to explore their faith, that we want them to say man, what is it about these people? We want to find out what they believe, because there's something different. That's our goal.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious from a historical perspective and you may or may not know this, but you've been in this industry for quite a while, this ministry for quite a while has the Epic formula changed? Was like say, go back a generation or two, go back to the Jesus movement days of the 70s. Would we use the same acronym for young adults?
Speaker 3:I think so. As far as my experience, we couldn't put it that tight back then. There's so much great content in the world in the kingdom right now, but when I think back to, we did a talent show about 25 years ago where we had different students. It was kind of like America's Got Talent might be University of Arizona's Got Talent. By the way, that's my alma mater Wildcat Country, wildcat Country baby, you're kind of conflicted.
Speaker 2:I mean you work at ASU, yeah, yeah anyway, so I gotta pause right there. When ASU plays U of A, who do you go for?
Speaker 3:well, I cheer out loud for ASU, but in my heart in your heart?
Speaker 2:yeah, I am, I have to admit. But no, I go Sunday and go go Wildcats ASU. But in my heart I'm In your heart. Yeah, I am double-minded, I have to admit.
Speaker 1:I have to repent. But no, I get up on.
Speaker 3:Sunday and go go Wildcats, and you guys need to repent for judging mascots Come on, we're the body of Christ. Anyway.
Speaker 3:So, you know, I think that the epic like we did this talent show and we had students doing all different kinds of stuff comedy skits and we had students doing all different kinds of stuff comedy skits, jump rope, all kinds of we literally packed an auditorium 25 years ago and we had like one fifth the work to get people there and then we connected with them and started doing relationship with them. I think it's all the way back to feeding the 5,000, man. It's worked ever since Jesus did it.
Speaker 2:Yes, so good, so experiential, participatory image, rich and connected. We've laughed. We've laughed a lot. Kids love to laugh. I'm coaching high school football right now Gilbert, christian, go Knights and having so much fun and the more we can laugh with the freshman to senior, it doesn't change much. You head to high school, kids just want to have a good time.
Speaker 2:You talk a lot about the power of laughter connected to faith and there's a lot of brain research which talks about laughter, actually the joy component moving us to thoughtful, creative, peace-filled, future-focused thoughts. Right, and the power of laughter is so, so huge connected to faith. I think a lot of times we look at Jesus and we think Jesus is just a stoic guy. You know he doesn't laugh much, he doesn't engage much. I love how the chosen is kind of debunking what I believe is a myth. I think Jesus is very humorous If you can read how he and get yourself into the mindset and the body and the face of. We don't talk about the face of Christ much, but I think a lot of times he's got a Harrison Ford schmirk when he's giving it to the Pharisees Like, did you hear that one? You know. So I think Jesus loved to have a good time. Our father is a father of laughter. He smiles over his kids, so talk about the power of laughter connected to faith.
Speaker 3:You bet Look into the camera though, Tim, because I actually think you look a lot like Jesus did.
Speaker 1:And especially with your beard, and so I'm working on that bad boy.
Speaker 3:I see your face, I don't know. Anyway so.
Speaker 3:Proverbs 17, 22 says a joyful heart is good medicine. So we've heard laughter is good medicine. I wouldn't recommend it. When someone breaks their arm, don't start laughing at them. But I do think it's good for the soul, and it comes from sort of my family experience.
Speaker 3:My dad was a doctor here in Phoenix, really super stoic, serious, went to Georgetown Medical School, read all the time. Just this academic guy, he's got a third. He had a third of the alphabet behind his name. And so here's the thing, though when my dad would laugh in our home the whole atmosphere would change. And so here's an ironic thing as a doctor, he would prescribe medicine for other people, but when he would laugh, it would be medicine for our family souls. So ever since that, those early days as a kid, when my dad would laugh at the honeymooners or whatever it was on TV, I would just go man, anything is possible. So I was something that just drove me. So I was in seminary around 15 years ago and I took all my credits and transferred them from seminary to comedy school, and I found out that they were teaching the same thing. Tim, that was my first joke.
Speaker 3:No, but seriously, that is a joke, but I really did do that and there's a guy that teaches stand-up comedy and I went to two semesters to learn how to do basically a little like intro set for comedians. And we began to find like really A-list Christian comedians that weren't cheesy or work in secular clubs and we began to bring them to campuses. We started a brand for college students called Outlaw Comedy. We started a brand for college students called Outlaw Comedy and so we did 50 different shows across the nation with 40,000 students in attendance and pretty much our commitment to laughter. Every year we launch the first Sunday we have a comedian come, a friend of mine, ron Pearson, who's a world-class juggler. He tells stories, jokes, the whole thing. He's a warmup comedian in Hollywood and he tells his story at the end and literally we fill our connect groups because he's so raw and real. People are like I want to be in a group where I can open up like this guy just did.
Speaker 1:So, it's.
Speaker 3:it's just we love it, it's a part of our formula and we're never going to stop doing it so good.
Speaker 2:Um, we, we got to get into rhythm. Shout out to Christ Greenfield. We've had comedians. We have about one a year or so, one of our kind of attract events. We need to do it. We need, maybe, maybe it's every. You can't laugh enough, brian.
Speaker 2:And it's not just comedians. It's just like in communicating the gospel, like I love when people it makes me really excited to tell a self-deprecating story where you know the punchline is going to hit and everybody's going to laugh. The church should focus, should focus more. And now my mind is going to the recent dumb story I told about myself. You remember, you remember Dumb and Dumber, brian? Yeah, were you a fan of kind of Dumb and Dumber? I love Jim Carrey. Yeah, jim Carrey is amazing. So I and I'd love, love to maybe hear the dumb story, one dumb story that you did.
Speaker 2:But when I was 13, I loved Dumb and Dumber so much that me and my friend Andy did it like a teen version video of Dumb and Dumber. I was, I was Jim Carrey Lloyd and he was, he was Harry, and I love the. I love the scene because what kid doesn't love that? What boy doesn't love bathroom humor? And so you know why I like you, harry, because you're a regular guy. That's why I'm going to keep you regular. One hefty teaspoon for fast, effective relief. And so we would play this scene. You know the bathroom scene and stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, here's the dumbest thing I ever did as a 13-year-old. I was babysitting a little five year old named Patrick and I gave him. I gave him what I thought was X lax because he was annoying the you know what out of me. I thought I was going to yeah, it doesn't make any sense. But I just seen Dumb and Dumber and so I went to his mom's closet and I got out a Pepto Bismol. But I thought it was X lalax. But the mom comes to me like a week later and says Patrick said you gave him more than one hefty teaspoon for effective relief and he's not gone to the bathroom for some time. If looks could kill, I wanted to lie so bad that I hadn't done it. I was. I'm an awful human. How does that even happen? You know what am I thinking? So, students, brains are not fully formed, but dumb and dumber inspired me to do something. Very, very dumb, brian.
Speaker 2:I told that story in church and this and this, uh, this was a few weeks back and this, you know middle-aged lady very stuck Her jaw was literally like this. So she's like I can't. I was like stop judging. We were talking about the apostle Paul. Right, paul killed Christians. For goodness sake, I didn't kill Patrick, just gave him some Pepto. He's all right, patrick's alive and well. Today, by the way, that's right.
Speaker 3:You just helped his stomach.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, telling goofy stories, you don't have to tell a story like that if you don't want, but we're real man, yeah, absolutely stories. You don't have to tell a story like that if you don't want, but we're real man, yeah absolutely my whole college career was a joke.
Speaker 2:I tell about that all the time. Yeah, so let's get into. The church should focus more on demonstration the reality, the rises and falls, the struggles, the joys, the successes more than just explanation. The church should focus more on demonstration and less on explanation. So speak about the power of action rather than just words, and feel free to share the story of President Roosevelt as he, as a leader, entered into World War II.
Speaker 3:Yeah, bro, so fun. So we all know the scripture talks about without a vision, the people perish. And so we spent a lot of time as leaders coming up with a great vision statement. I think that's important. But I've discovered that passion trumps vision. In other words, if people aren't passionate, I don't care how well it's written, they're not going to do anything. But I've also found that action trumps everything. So if we're not going to do something about our excitement and our vision, then we won't have any impact. And so here's a story about taking action from World War II. You guys know the story In 1939, hitler went on the offensive.
Speaker 3:America was all uptight and just into themselves. After World War I, there was basically this isolationist attitude we're not going to go to war, we're not getting involved in something else, it's not our business, they're going to do what they're going to do. We got our own issues, we're trying to come out of World War I. And then you know, germany's not our problem. But over the next couple of years, hitler conquered most of our allies in Europe, and so Americans were bothered, but not bothered enough to take action. They still hadn't. And here's what happened. The fight came to us on December 7th 1941, pearl Harbor. We know the story.
Speaker 3:President Roosevelt decided I'm going to rally our country. Everyone was mobilized for the war effort. He ramped up the war machine. They called it. Companies like Chrysler, ford, general Motors started making tanks and planes. The average Ford car had 15,000 parts. The B-24 Liberator long range bomber had over 450,000 parts and one bomber came off the assembly line every 63 minutes. And that's because America stopped isolating from the fight and took action. Because of that we won the war. The same thing can happen on college campuses if the church takes action. So I've heard it said that the church is like a football game 22 guys in desperate need of rest, surrounded by 52,000 people in desperate need of exercise. That's what I've heard, but Pastor.
Speaker 3:Tim. As pastors and church leaders, we equip our church members to share their story and the gospel story in a clear, concise way. We can win this battle. Come on bro.
Speaker 2:Amen. Man and a whole generation can be changed. And people often lament we're not a Christian country anymore. All this kind of stuff. I would love to see the next generation, the next cycle, be filled with passionate, engaging, jesus-centered, optimistic Jesus followers. Like that would radically change the United States of America. But you got to engage it and recognize there's an enemy. We focus on, the enemy being people that are far from God right or those that have different ideas. They're not the enemy, it's Satan, the big liar, who's getting us. He's keeping us stuck in the stands. I love that metaphor. We're not playing and Jesus casts a vision and then gave the passion, the fuel. What is the passion and fuel, brian? It's the Holy Spirit, man, it's the wind of the Holy Spirit that carries us along.
Speaker 2:I don't know how you can be a grumpy, non-meaning filled, pessimistic Christian. I know how that takes place because sin and leads to depression and selfishness and all that kind of stuff. I get it, but like you've been redeemed by Christ to crucified. If I read the apostle Paul and the mission of the early church, I see Jesus fuel. Like everywhere, it's looking back with gratitude. Let's just go timeline here.
Speaker 2:They're always looking back at what God has done at what God had done his promises. He's been faithful in the past. There's love, love in your identity in Christ and love for your neighbor in the present. And then there's hope. No matter what comes in the future, you know the crucified and risen one who's going to return to make all things new. So what do we have to be afraid of? What are we so pessimistic about? We know who wins at the end of the day, right, brian? So let's go, let's get active. So how was the early church let's talk. The early church, how was the early church defined? Through action. What of their actions should we emulate today, in 2024?
Speaker 3:Well, as I read the book of Acts, we see that the church is not just a place where we go to hear a message. The church is a group of people with a message on the move. That's what I see. And so in Acts 2, you know, we see thousands of people getting saved, baptized, and they start sharing the gospel. They literally change a city and then, throughout Acts, they never stop preaching the gospel, even in the midst of tribulation, persecution, arrest and martyrdom. They don't pray for it to go away, they pray for courage in the midst of it. So I call this the physics of the gospel, for courage in the midst of it. So I call this the physics of the gospel.
Speaker 3:You guys remember, you've heard this Newton's first law, the law of inertia, that an object in motion tends to stay in motion and an object at rest tends to stay at rest. Well, when Jesus said in Matthew 28, to go, that was all about motion. Go, move towards the harvest. And the one thing I've learned in over 35 years of ministry is that a Christian in motion tends to stay in motion, but a Christian at rest tends to stay at rest and find fault with Christians in motion. It's sad, like I had a buddy in high school. It's funny, he was in Goodwill hunting. Do you remember that scene where Matt Damon's talking to the guy in the bar, the guy with the ponytail? He goes how do you like them apples, that whole thing? The guy with the ponytail was my classmate at Brophy High School, scott Winters, and his brother is the mayhem guy at Allstate with the band-aids. They're doing brothers.
Speaker 2:They do look alike now, I can see it, you can see it, I can totally see it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So he went home one he got really big working out. He just worked out all summer long and came back and there was two options. When you saw Scott, you could either say, man, scott got huge. And you go up to him and go, dude, how did you do that? I want to get big. Or you would say, well, he's just doing steroids, I'm not going to do that. And so it's kind of like that in the body of Christ. Either there's something wrong with that ministry if it's going and growing, or how do you do it? We want to learn from you. And so I just think we got to remember the church is not a place where we go to hear a message. It's a people with a message on the move. Students aren't going to come to us, we have to go to them.
Speaker 2:Yes, so so good. Coming down the homestretch man, I'm going to put a little timestamp in that one. And for those of you in the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod, what Pastor Brian just said is the reason we're conflicted today. We're trying to justify if our ministry is struggling and we're trying to define ourselves. It's all an identity issue. We're trying to find our identity in how I'm being faithful we use this term. Actually, brian, I'm being, if you're just faithful, it doesn't matter if things are declining and there's issues in your church et cetera, but, man, I'm faithful. Well, there are people who are out there wondering if you're gonna be faithful on the move. They're not wondering this, but the Holy Spirit is wondering if you wanna join him in his mission out in the world. And then we should look at our brothers and sisters.
Speaker 2:You read the Infinite Game by Simon Sinek. No, so the Infinite Game. It's a decent concept. The concept is my goal is not to win the game, it's to stay in the game. It's to stay in the game. And for my church to stay in the game, it's going to necessitate multiplying disciples, sending out leaders, raising up the next generation. I just want to stay in the game, because it's an infinite game. There's no winning per se.
Speaker 2:So as I look at other, as I look at other ministries, they're just worthy rivals and rival in air quotes. They're not our rival. But I'm looking at, I'm like man, what can I learn if I'm in the industry? Right, if I'm in the marketplace? I'm looking at Amazon's being watched by a number of different folks you know in the sales industry. So how do I look at them and say, man, I got something to learn.
Speaker 2:That is the best perspective, rather than looking at that ministry or whatever the movement is and saying, wow, they're compromising something. That's the scarcity, that's the scarcity mindset and it leads us down a very, very depressing, dark, controlling power, hungry path. And there are some within the Lutheran church Missouri Synod that are going down that path. I don't want that. Jesus doesn't want that path.
Speaker 2:He's given us great vision to see the fields are ripe under the harvest. Pray to the Lord of the harvest, send out workers into his harvest field. So thank you for bringing that kind of prophetic word to challenge us. Let's get on the move and stay on the move. So everywhere you and your team go, you look for opportunities to meet new people, to share the gospel, what we've just said, like movement, laughter, engagement, all of that sounds awesome to the extrovert, but maybe some people who are the, because we are both kind of especially when we're on, if you will, we're kind of raging extroverts. You know, not everybody's a Brian Smith or the way God uniquely and weirdly made me. So how does such a strategy that you have right now for engaging college students engage the introvert who likes to keep his or her tribe smaller?
Speaker 3:That's great, great question. So here's what I tell our church all the time If you're following Jesus as Lord, you're called to make the Great Commission your mission, regardless of your degree or vocation. And you're called to make the Great Commission your mission regardless of your degree or vocation, and you're called to be a witness for Jesus, regardless of your spiritual gifts, your stage of life or your current circumstances. Just read the book of Acts. I think that's how we should act. So some people think witnessing is like the responsibility of full-time staff members who have the gift of evangelism, but the word evangelist only appears three times in Scripture. On the other hand, the word witness appears over 30 times in the New Testament. It's used to describe everyone who's following Jesus. So here's what that means we don't need a gift of evangelism to be a witness. We just need to be a witness, right. So there are a few things we can all do, though, to be a witness. We just need to be a witness, right. So there are a few things we can all do, though, to give people hope.
Speaker 3:First, no matter where you're at introvert, extrovert write down a list of your friends and pray for them on a daily basis, and pray that God would make you salt and light in their life and that you would just that God would break your heart for these people, your friends, that you put on your list. I started doing this with my neighbors recently and they're coming out of the houses saying hi, it's just crazy how it works. But back in the day, when I was on campus, after I gave my life to Jesus, I started making a list of my friends and praying for them, literally a few times a week at prayer meetings, and they would come out of the woodwork and say I'd see them and they'd go oh, I was thinking about you. You know it's cool to see you and you know some of them would get saved on campus. Some of them five years later, 10 years, 15, even 20 years later.
Speaker 3:I have the privilege of leaving some of my classmates to the Lord. So secondly, after making the list, invite them into your life. Statistics show that the average American makes one new friend every five years. So we've got to be, friends with people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one new friend.
Speaker 2:That's why we're lonely, bro, absolutely. That's why loneliness is an epidemic. One new friend in five years.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Rick Warren says write down what you love to do most and then go, do it with unbelievers. Whatever you love to do, turn it into an outreach. So I like to say if you can invite people into your house, you can invite them into God's house, the church. So the majority of students are not immediately open to the gospel when they arrive on campus. But they may be interested in exploring their faith, but most aren't really ready to go all in and follow Jesus until they hit a crisis at some point.
Speaker 3:So we're currently in relationship with thousands of students across our movement because we believe when they hit crisis, we want to be there, to be in relationship with them, to help tell them the message of Jesus. And so we just got to tell people about Jesus. I tell our church our relationship with Jesus is personal, but it was never designed to be private. We got to tell people our story and the gospel story. Hey, if we just equip them to do that, they could do the elevator pitch in three minutes or they could sit down for an hour. They could do a Bible study. But we just got to be ready to share the gospel whenever it comes up and we got to start praying that it would.
Speaker 2:Yeah and it will. It will as crisis comes, as suffering comes, as things go one way or another in our country, in the world, there's going to be ample opportunity for us to meet that crisis with the hope of the resurrection, praise God. Finally, the last question. This has been so much fun, brian, the time has flown. You call reaching college kids the adventure of a lifetime. Why so?
Speaker 3:Well, there's nothing like reaching the next generation with the gospel. By the way, I have more T-shirts in my collection than collared shirts. I love it. I collect swim shirts from every college campuses I visit because I played water polo in college. But college students, again, are the most recruitable, trainable and sendable people in the world. It's so listen, why did Jesus choose college age guys when he was on this earth? Because they've always been the best people to change the world, their future leaders, business leaders, husbands, fathers, wives and mothers. We have the privilege of impacting their lives and seeing really an arc of their story, from freshman year all the way through graduation, marriage, kids. It's so incredible and you know, a lot of the revivals that have happened start on college campuses. It just wakes me up in the morning. I love it. I love it. I never. I don't want to do anything else.
Speaker 2:It's a calling, bro, and you're very unique and the world needs your unique gifting and your, your multiplying impact and your big vision, but fueled by just a very simple passion to share the gospel with as many kids as possible. I commend it. I'm learning from you, we'll continue to learn from you and from Hope Church Movement, praying for you, that it blows, I mean just expands to all. Let's go, let's just reach as many kids as possible, and we want to partner with you toward that end. So how can people connect with you as they're listening to the Hope Church Movement? Brian?
Speaker 3:Well, by the way, on Amazon, my book Winning the Battle to Belong is available. If they want to buy that and read it and then reach out to us on Instagram Hope Church Movement, mvmt. Facebook Hope Church website HopeChurchMovementcom. I'm on Facebook Brian Smith Sr and Instagram Pastor B Smith underscore Campus Change your Network is a great way if you're a church that wants to reach a campus near you. We actually have a coaching, consulting and really we'll even send teams to Spark Evangelism for you to follow up with all over the country. Please get in touch with us. That's Campus Changer Network and I think it's CampusChangerNetworkcom. Yeah, and so please buy my book, not because none of the finances go to me, it goes to our movement and I want more people to be in the battle to belong, winning that on the campuses near their church.
Speaker 3:And you'd take confessional conservative Lutherans to train to launch ministries Would you welcome us Absolutely as long as I have a haircut like yours.
Speaker 2:Dude, you're the man. This has been so, so much fun and this is the American Reformation podcast. Please share this conversation today. Think of some follower of Jesus in your world. Don't let them know why you're sending it to them, but you're like. You know you could use some joy. You could use some passion for reaching the next generation. You need a infusion of meaning to be a grandpa, maybe to college kids, and to come in. Everybody, every generation, every age and stage needs to be engaged in this conversation to reach the next generation, to help them, to help cast vision for them becoming the leaders and the gospel multipliers. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day, brian. You're the man. Man Love you, dude. Thank you for this time.
Speaker 3:Love you, bro. Thanks for having me on, all right.