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American Reformation
We believe the American church needs reformation. To go forward we must go back. This podcast will explore the theology and practices of the early church and other eras of discipleship multiplication and apply those learnings to our post-Christian/secular American culture. American Reformation is a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective. Follow us at uniteleadership.org. We consult, bring together cohorts of congregations for peer to peer learning, and certify leaders for work in the church and world.
American Reformation
A Healing Generation: Timothy Fote on Spiritual and Mental Health
What happens when an educator transitions from a routine-oriented teaching environment in Decatur, Illinois, to a respect-driven, relational ministry in Phoenix, Arizona? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Timothy Fote from Valley Lutheran High School, as he shares his unique journey and insights on fostering unity among Christian churches in America. Timothy discusses the rise of overt practices of witchcraft and secularism and underscores the critical importance of grounding education in the Word and building strong teacher-student relationships to nurture the faith of the next generation.
How do schools balance technology use with the need for personal connection, especially in the wake of increasing student anxiety and withdrawal? Discover the innovative initiatives at Valley Lutheran High School, from minimizing cell phone usage to creating a meditation classroom and employing full-time counselors. Our conversation also delves into the complexities of understanding the Holy Spirit's work within a Lutheran context, addressing common misconceptions and the tension between charismatic practices and Orthodox Lutheran beliefs.
What if you could heal from trauma and generational wounds through a structured approach like "Restoring the Foundations"? We explore this powerful method, highlighting the critical role of heart posture and inviting Jesus into moments of trauma for true healing. Timothy and I discuss the scriptural and scientific basis for generational influences on behavior, offering practical insights for transforming negative beliefs and experiences into positive, godly ones. This episode is a deep dive into spiritual growth, mental health, and the profound impact of inner deliverance.
Welcome to the American Reformation podcast. This is Tim Allman. Pray the joy and love of Jesus. His love, his delight over you is fueling you today. Wherever you are, whether you're in your car, you're getting your walk with the Lord. And to learn that's what the ULC is all about. We've got to learn. Stay consistent learners.
Speaker 1:Today, I get to learn with, we get to learn with Timothy Folt. Let me tell you about Timothy. Tim and I have gotten to know one another over the last 11 years now. He's been a teacher at Valley Lutheran High School in Phoenix, arizona. Proud of his work there, he's currently teaching art, psychology, public speaking yearbook, and he also has a, for those of you who are connected to Christ Greenfield, a history of teaching, educating in Decatur, illinois, all of the Colendo, tanya Colendo, our former principal, her children in their younger years, where he was a teacher at Decatur.
Speaker 1:So we're going to be talking about the church in general, maybe education, but the majority of this conversation is going to focus on spiritual warfare, the work of the Holy Spirit. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the powers and principalities of this dark and dying age, with Jesus as the reigning Lord, the risen and reigning one who sent us his spirit, who points us to the word by which we do battle against the spiritual forces. Today, jesus fights for us. So, before we get into all of that conversation, tim, how are you doing, man? Good, good, it's good to be here. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So a standard opening question for this podcast how are you praying for reformation? As you look at the broader landscape you've been in Lutheran context You're also connected to kind of the broader movement of the church here in the United States of America how are you praying for reformation?
Speaker 2:Tim, unity of all the churches for us all to come together and lift up the name Jesus. He's first and foremost and he's going to. The timing is. We're at a tipping point right now with where we are across our nation, and the light will continue to shine even brighter.
Speaker 1:So I love that. John 17. It wasn't just a flimsy kind of prayer from Jesus that they would be. We would be one, as the father and the son are one, so they would see the bride of Christ united in mission, declaring the one Jesus Christ. You say we're at a tipping point right now. What do you mean by that? As you look at it, especially in the American Christian landscape, what's that mean?
Speaker 2:Um, you can either choose not to follow him or you can be on the other side. Um, I feel like for us to continue to walk on that fence and be lukewarm isn't really possible, and because of that, we are going to continue to see the shaking happening here in.
Speaker 1:America. When you say shaking, are you referring to kind of the rampant secularism you could even say some pagan practices that have kind of infused American spirituality, the kind of new age movement and even a rise. This is kind of wild and not to get kind of going too much, but the rise in even demonic worship, satan, satanic worship, even more in the forefront. Is this kind of where you're, you're trending right now? There there is a a very distinct cause. I am agreeing with you here there's a very evident difference between light and dark. Anything more to say there, tim.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um no, you. You put it all right out there and for individuals straight in your face talking about witchcraft, it's there today. Five or ten years ago you didn't see that so blatant in front of you.
Speaker 1:Well, we're feeling things before we're thinking things, we're desiring things more than just brains on a stick, and so it's not surprising understanding the times, and I think it's an it's an awesome time. So let's, before we get into kind of more of the spiritual warfare conversation, a prayer for unity, a prayer for understanding the times. Tell us about your ministry at Lutheran high school. What do you love most about being an educator and really speaking into the next, next generation of Jesus followers there? Tell us about your ministry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've been here at Valley Lutheran for 11 years. Before that I taught for four years in central Illinois and Concordia. Lutheran background grew up in the Lutheran schools, my whole life. Lutheran background Grew up in the Lutheran schools, my whole life and kind of what continues to bring me back into Lutheran education is its firm foundation in the word. It's so powerful. And then here at Valley Lutheran there's just a high emphasis of relational ministry. There's just a high emphasis of relational ministry and that was one reason why I took the cross-country trip from coming to teaching in Illinois to Phoenix was when the students know that their teachers care and there is time set aside to build those relationships between the teachers and the students, everything just blossoms.
Speaker 1:And grows and it's really beautiful to see on a daily basis what's I mean taking that journey. I've lived in the Midwest, went to school at Concordia, seward right, and in your mind as an educator specifically, what's the difference between teaching a school in the Midwest Decatur? I'm asking you to paint with a little bit of a broad brush, a Lutheran school in Decatur and a Lutheran school here in Phoenix.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. My mind jumps first to Decatur being an all blue collar working class town. So the primary reason for families to send their students there wasn't a Christian education. Their primary reason was for a safe school. So that was a different context. And, yeah, probably to go back to your question, what is the difference between the Midwest and the Southwest? The Midwest felt more like rigid and routines within the Lutheran context and as I started to make my journey out here, through the interview process and other things, I realized that the Lutheran Church in the Southwest has a broader perspective of the church, a more mutual respect for the other denominations, and that was something that I thought was amazing Thought was amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I do too, I guess it's. It's funny, sociologically, interesting sociologically, that the tighter you get, I think, with a group of people who basically all think the same way, the more you start to differentiate yourself on various practices or the sociology starts to kind of well, there's a hierarchy, you know, and we do things a certain way. Well, when you're in a diverse context with a lot of different expressions, by nature human beings want to unite, right? I mean I want to find areas of commonality with you. I mean I'll certainly find those areas where we differ. But specifically to the church, I mean I want to find people who declare Jesus as Lord and I want to lock arm in arm with them, and I have to have a relationship with them before I can talk about things that I disagree on, you know, or offer the gift of, maybe our sacramental theology or our view of the Holy Spirit. A relationship has to take place. But I wonder and again I'm painting with a little bit of a broad brush I wonder because in the Midwest context we've just been kind of the same, especially if you've just kind of navigated the Lutheran Church, missouri Synod circles, lots of churches right, especially in rural settings that then we get a little bit more, I don't know, persnickety with one another and divisive over things that we, you know, may have conversations about here but certainly won't divide. And I'm not talking doctrine really at all, I'm talking more of our practices. Maybe worship is one of those ways that we're like, wow, we love robust over the top. If you want to do smells and bells, liturgical worship, great, right. But there are also some congregations that are making different liturgical choices, not compromising theology, and we're like, okay, there's just a little bit more of like the we've got to keep the main thing, the main thing, because it's so evident that so many people need Jesus in our context and they're not being served with word and sacrament, right.
Speaker 1:So I got, I got a church, uh, down the road, a redeemer Um, it's not a Lutheran, it's a non-denom they probably come from a little bit more. I've got to know the Pastor John there and he and I, and this is going to be like huh to a lot of folks. Maybe, if you're listening, he and I agree, I'd say, on like 90% of things. It's not going to surprise you what he doesn't agree with the real presence of Christ and infant baptism, right, but the inerrancy of scripture and other things like. But he's open to the conversation about it, you know, and I want to, I want to, I want his church to grow, I want our church to grow. I think they should. People should come in for sure. But, like everybody, hearing about Jesus, it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful thing. So anything more to add to, um, I guess, the different sociology that we discover more around the coast, because there is a different sociology around the coast and in the Midwest. There, tim, am I making any sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, as you're sharing, I was thinking a lot also about sensationism.
Speaker 1:that was more prevalent in the Midwest compared to the Southwest within the yeah For people who don't know, define that and share the story of that sensationism.
Speaker 2:It was a movement. It touched base in the Lutheran denomination Catholic, all Christian denominations, and it was saying that the gifts of the Spirit miracles, signs and wonders are no longer prevalent for today and it was just a practice of when it was needed, during the time of Jesus.
Speaker 1:I've talked to some theologians. I don't know if it was on this podcast, but they kind of look at the book of Acts. It's not prescriptive, it's descriptive of what God did right, and I think that's true. The Bible should be understand in context, for sure. But to say that the Holy Spirit has stopped moving in the ways that the Holy Spirit moved in Scripture and the way the Apostle Paul spoke about the Holy Spirit, I think is missing something. So, yeah, we're definitely not cessationists, but there may be some within our, our tribe to be, to be sure. So let's, let's move into, before we get into, the work of the Holy Spirit. I gotta anytime I get an educator, I gotta ask about Gen Z, inspire us about the young people today, their faith, and even dispel maybe some myths that people may have about Gen Z and high schoolers today. Tim.
Speaker 2:I don't know, gen Z. I always feel they're searching for the real thing. Within the context of our high school day-to-day life, there's a media difference between showing a five-minute video during chapel and having a real live speaker during chapel. The real speaker is what they want. They, they've seen screens all day and they want the real, authentic person in front of them. Um, so they, they don't want the polished message that. They want the real thing. Um, and they're going to search it out, however that looks. They don't want something candy coated. It's good.
Speaker 1:Um, have you, have you read this? Have you guys been encouraged to read this?
Speaker 2:I haven't seen that no.
Speaker 1:The Anxious Generation, jonathan Haidt and I think it just came out. It's kind of the rage right now. It's trending how the great rewiring of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness and it's just tracking how screens are not helpful. The brain actually knows, tim, the difference between a face and a screen and a face to face, even like I love doing podcasts like this. You know using technology, but even being in the same space with you, there's a closer connection. How are you at the school? You know utilizing technology but maybe saying you know what? Maybe we've overutilized technology. Is that a conversation you all are having there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I feel at schools everywhere, but there is an intentionality of making sure cell phones aren't actively used throughout the day. Sure, cell phones aren't actively used throughout the day. It's funny. We actually blame the parents the most, because the parents are the ones who send a text message to their kid during the day. But, yeah, putting away the screen or the phone, just I don't know a little, it's there, it's there in front of us and but it's also needed, I feel, like assignment tracking and all the online platforms for grading. It's part of your everyday life. You can't get away from it either. Yeah, Are.
Speaker 1:Are you seeing I'm asking you again, stay high level here but has there been an increase in, maybe, anxiety and things like that that you're seeing in students, that you kind of on a day-to-day basis have to help kids, kind of process?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I feel like ever since 2020 and that what happened as the cause and effect of that is mental illness, an all time high for high school students. High anxiety high, just negative thought patterns. It's there. A lot of withdrawal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, patterns, it's there. Um, a lot of withdrawal, you know, yeah, and how, how are you and the teachers kind of helping kids through that? I mean a little shout out. I was on your accreditation team and I forget the name of your one educator, but you've got one room that is like a meditation classroom, like Jesus is everywhere it's. You know, there's a I think it's lavender. It smells great and there's something you know, but it's an awesome place. If a kid needs just to to rest, where they can go. Are you doing any other things to try and set space for kids that are struggling?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what you're referencing was something we started a year, year and a half ago with having a full-time counselor on our staff due to this need of what we've seen in today's generation. So the social-emotional concepts, valley Lutheran has a history of relational family dynamics, so just making sure that that stays on the forefront of our mind proceeding forward. So, to answer your question, it's the intentional time. We're in the same group of 12 students. We see each other three times a week and so I keep tabs on those 12 students.
Speaker 1:So good, discipleship groups, kind of thing. That's so good. All right, let's get into the work of the Holy Spirit. Growing up in a Lutheran context, what are some ways the work of the Holy Spirit can be? And you kind of referred to this cessationist. But we can look at the Holy Spirit. You can say the Father, obviously, the Son, life, death, resurrection, ascension of the Son, reign of the Son, return of the Son. But then we kind of whisper the Holy Spirit, right. What are some ways the work of the Holy Spirit can be looked upon? Suspiciously, tim, especially as a Lutheran.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, an average person today could easily jump on Google and type in some weird Holy Spirit thing and their mind sees people being laughing, rolling around on the floor and you don't have a context and you become judgmental about that, about that. So that would probably be my upbringing of the weird aspects of it and not having any framework or reference point to those types of manifestations.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I have a number of friends that have come out of the charismatic movement and found a home in kind of Orthodox confessing Lutheranism, and some of their, some of their struggles was legalism around the gifts of the Holy Spirit, right, and some people are, are closer to God because maybe they speak in tongues or have the gift of healing or something, something like that.
Speaker 1:Um, how, how should we rightly think, cause those experiences are very real, legalism is very real. What words of wisdom do you have for us? Okay, hold those honestly, but also less judgmentally, and we should judge, to be sure, but we're not in that environment and our theology again, I'm walking the tension-filled middle way here and our theology is very different. So, just give us words of wisdom and how to put the best construction on, especially folks that have really, really struggled. And I'll say this some of the most zealous confessing Lutherans, who are just all in, many of them, came out of a pretty top down legalistic. They feel, they felt like there was maybe even abuse in their, in their spiritual journey and the charismatic context, and and so they're, they've gone the entire, the entire extreme to the other side. Any thoughts there, tim?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've had one or two co-workers with a similar experience and they've expressed that to me, um, their apprehensions and their hurt, uh, within, like accepting jesus as lord within the charismatic movement, and then they um felt like they were forced to speak in tongues and they couldn't do that, and so they're like this, that they were hurt emotionally speak in tongues and they couldn't do that, and so they're like this, that they were hurt emotionally from that. Um, so they stepped away. Um, so I I have friends, individuals, who've expressed that to me. Um, probably I would. Instead of focusing on all of these which way to go and what to believe, I believe it's first focused on your heart posture, because that's what the Lord cares about the most. He doesn't care whether or not you speak in tongues, he cares about your heart towards him.
Speaker 1:That's good. Let's talk about the heart. Luther talks about the heart. An awful lot, right? It's very evident that some people's hearts are hard and you could even say dark, and there could possibly be demonic activity, oppression. What is the role of the Holy Spirit in identifying, confronting and winning in the midst of spiritual oppression, spiritual warfare? Tim?
Speaker 2:It's critical. So I have been a part of Inner Healing and Deliverance Ministry for the past, deliverance ministry for the past, actively the past eight years, and I stumbled upon it unexpectedly and, however, I've seen that the Holy Spirit and interacting and having the Lord come in and bring healing and restoration of the heart is one of the most powerful aspects for you to walk in a greater level of freedom.
Speaker 1:So that's great. I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second. What would you say to someone who says inner healing like this sounds like you're doing some sort of work to heal yourself. Like this sounds like you're doing some sort of work to heal yourself Isn't the ultimate healing faith, which is created by the Holy Spirit, and then the restoration of the heart in which, into this sort of an experience, when all that's needed is is faith and trust in the promises of God? Only God changes the human heart.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, what would you say to that person? Tim, we all have individuals, and where we see that they have you may call them blinders on could be a blinder of addiction. It could be. What else have I seen Through this inner healing deliverance? I've walked alongside men who are addicted to drugs and alcohol, who are addicted to porn, who want to get greater levels of freedom or just have a mindset of why do I always feel rejected? So a spirit of rejection is on you, so, as a result, you withdraw and you can feel like you can never engage with a group draw and you can feel like you can never engage with a group. And so what the Holy Spirit does in the session is the Holy Spirit brings you to the starting place of a memory of where you initially felt rejection. Sometimes in sessions, the Holy Spirit will bring you into your mother's womb and you felt rejection from, maybe your mom or dad, like this, this child we're having, but we don't want this child and how that incident carries on throughout your life and creates patterns.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't. Really there aren't many ministries in again, we're Lutheran Church, missouri Synod, followers of Jesus in the LCMS, that kind of talk, that way, and what I hear. I'm going to put it in a bucket. What I hear is more about character development to be fully human. Satan attacks leaders, every human being, to be sure, every Christian, especially those that, wanted by the Spirit's power, take kingdom ground, share the love and life and ministry of Jesus. Like this is a spiritual affront. And if you're maybe I'll use this you use masks or there's an area where you feel kind of stuck. If you're two-faced and or stuck like the Holy Spirit wants to enter in to that experience and give. I don't know what is offensive about having a brother or sister, a spiritual father or mother, a mentor, a friend. Just come alongside and invite you into those moments and then to invite the Holy Spirit to bring healing and even maybe we'll move in this direction and even invite Jesus into that room, into that experience, into that trauma. That doesn't seem like a liberal thing to do. It seems like a very Jesus-centered thing to do. And let me make it biblical here, right, I mean narrative.
Speaker 1:The Apostle Paul does this all the time in his story, both in the book of Acts as well as in his epistles, he tells the narrative about who he was and how Jesus met him on the road right. It wasn't metaphorical or metaphysical, it was like the risen Jesus. He actually met him there on the road, something like scales. Then, when belief came, fell from his eyes and he was radically changed to be the greatest Like, I think, paul. Going back, he he would say you should certainly go to your traumatic moments where you've believed, lies, where you've doubted the promises of God, where others have hurt and abused you, and invite Jesus into that moment.
Speaker 1:This isn't I don't think we should label this as like this charismatic woo-woo thing. People are hurting and we need okay, let me put another filter on it. This is just confession and absolution. This is what pastors should do privately, right, it's not just a public thing. But share where you believe lies where you've been traumatized, confess it and let the power and presence and promises of God enter into that moment to remind you who you are. You are his and nothing can separate you from his love. Am I making any sense? I'm just trying to make the case for a Lutheran understanding of the role of deliverance in a very personal, private, most of the time way. Anything more to say there, tim.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you put it all right out there. I'm taken back to my childhood memory of my grandfather, who most impacted my faith. He lived with PTSD from the Army his whole life and he could never get free of that. He had sleepless nights all the way till he died in his mid 80s and, coming upon inner healing and deliverance, I have seen men get free of PTSD, of getting free of those traumatic memories so that they can live life to their fullest. There's a ministry in Colorado Springs. It's called Operation Warrior yeah, I've heard of it and they do this sort of context too and it's made for military first responders, any men who want to get free of those life's traumatic events so that they can continue to live life to its fullest.
Speaker 1:So tell us about, like, get us behind the curtain a little bit of what that experience is like. When you walk alongside someone you can pick, you know, a trial or a trauma that they're working through and the mask, the protective mechanisms that they put up. And so what does that experience look like for them? You know either the first time or like the journey of deliverance for them. Tim, tell that story a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, to be trained you yourself, you have to go through like 10 sessions and get yourself free. Uh, I actually was going to do mission work in Mozambique, uh, with Roland and Heidi Baker, and if they found out, all the missionaries that go and do mission work in Mozambique, they're so wounded. And so my first requirement was to go through two weeks of inner healing deliverance myself, because people leave the mission field because missionaries hurt missionaries. That's the number one reason. Slightly off track, but what I've seen is it's layers. It's a layer of an onion. You walk through one level of healing and the Lord's going to do more.
Speaker 2:The context that I the umbrella covering that I'm under is called Restoring the Foundations, and they pinpoint an issue and you come forward with one particular issue.
Speaker 2:Your ministers kind of create a game plan of how your three-hour session is going to go. They do have a three-day session if you want thorough format, but I'm most active with the three-hour session and you show up and you begin removing legal ground. The first area that we identify and attack is sins of our fathers and resulting curses, things that get passed down through your generational line, and repenting upon your own sins and the sins of within your family line and that alone is super powerful. Then the second area that we identify is a core ungodly belief, something that continually repeats in your head over and, over and over again. That's related to your issue and asking the Lord for that divine exchange. So whenever this ungodly belief enters your mind, you are going to counterattack it with this new godly belief and you work alongside and then you carry that piece of paper with you and you say it all whenever it comes, so that you can begin to rewire your brain.
Speaker 1:Can you give us an example of what that sounds like? You can pick an issue, or yeah?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, um, I don't know. I'll use a one of my first uh sessions for myself. I I said I will uh, never be in church leadership again. So I was hurt by the church. I was hurt in multiple contexts. So I had this ungodly belief and I told myself I will never be in church leadership again. So that was the lie that I was believing. And then I was asked. The ministers had me ask the Lord and we generated a new godly belief. And so the the new godly belief is probably this was like eight years ago that the Lord has gifted me and equipped me with the right tools to bring people into the fullness of their destiny. Cool.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing that. That's. That's awesome. So the third point, since the fathers core and godly belief, the divine exchange, third thing you guys seek to do in that three-hour session.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the third area is soul-spirit healing and that is the most kind of messy area, but it's also the most fun. And that is where we, as ministers, we ask the individual to invite the Holy Spirit in and bring you to the starting place of the memory and then Holy Spirit enters and you're taken back to a memory and it's extremely, extremely powerful. It's extremely, extremely powerful. So instances for me, like I remember being taken back to a memory of, like I had this ungodly belief that I was slow and I learned slow, and just those mindsets about school, like I don't, I don't, I'm not as quick as everyone else. So in that memory, the Lord brought me to my kindergarten classroom and I remember in this kindergarten classroom I was the last kid done with the worksheet and how horrible I felt about that and I wasn't able to play with the rest of the kids because everyone else had.
Speaker 2:And in the memory, when the Holy Spirit came in and healed that memory, the Holy Spirit had me do a drawing for my teacher. So, even though I couldn't play with the rest of the kindergartners, he actually had a different assignment he wanted me to create this drawing for my teacher. So, even though I couldn't play with the rest of the kindergartners. He actually had a different assignment. He wanted me to create this drawing for my teacher. Give it to her because she was having a bad day. Like rewriting that memory, because the Lord always is going to use you in every incident.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, okay, there's so many things I want to talk about. Oh my goodness, okay, there's so many things I want to talk about. We rarely talk about generational kind of systemic dysfunction as American Christians in general, and Lutherans to be sure. There's kind of a hyper focus on the self right, american individualistic Christianity. And yet where would you tell someone to go in terms of Scripture to make a case? You know what Generational you could say curses bad decisions. This is a real thing that needs to be, because I could think of to the third and the fourth generation right Of those who do not believe, those who do not follow. So anything more to say to kind of the generational aspect of our sin.
Speaker 2:Well, in my eight years of doing this, that is actually the number one topic, that question that gets presented before us. So it's a very touchy point. But you could look at scripture in so many other ways, and I also. Then I recently came across a study three, four months ago about the science world using lab rats, and a lab rat ate peanut butter and instantly was electrocuted, and their children saw that. So then what happened is, whenever peanut butter was presented, those children of the lab rats freaked out and they ran away. Then the kid, the next generation of those rats, still were triggered by that particular smell, even though they never saw that great grandma rat eat that peanut butter bread. So that in the science world they've also seen that occur through the generational line.
Speaker 1:Is there any place you'd go though in Scripture to say hey, we should be aware of? Well, I mean, there's both blessings and curses, like how does God reveal himself? I am the God of who? Abraham, isaac and Jacob in the Old Testament, and we're tethered. I mean, there's a beautiful gift of understanding, like the faith has been passed down.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking, eunice Lois, you know, remember where you've come from, young Pastor Timothy. So it can be used both as kind of a gospel-oriented charge for a life of faithfulness and following Jesus, and it can be used as a warning. And, let's be honest, like everybody has gifts and caps, like I'm passing stuff on to my kids, great things and other maybe OCD, perfectionist tendencies, that I'm a firstborn, my, my daughter, you know, sorry, baby, there's just stuff that that happens, that we need to, we need to talk through Um, and it could be that it goes, that it goes back just, uh, just a little bit right, that that addictive pattern, that angry pattern, it's what came from your great grandpa and your grandpa and your dad and now, now it just helps explain why am I the way I am, tim.
Speaker 1:I think it's a helpful framework that we shouldn't be too suspicious about Anything more to say there and to go in Scripture too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I use that Scripture, the third and fourth generation of those, but then the other item. I was trying to think I lost in a daze. What were your two questions? There was another question.
Speaker 1:The other item. I was trying to think I lost in a daze. What were your two questions? There's another question. Oh, I mean I don't know, Maybe we can just move on. It's fine. It's fine, let's get into the oh here. I remember I was going to share this.
Speaker 2:You got it In a ministry context. We kind of parallel that with when you go to your doctor's office, and when you show up to the doctor's office you have to fill out a prescription of your medical history of your family and you show that to your primary doctor. In the same context you fill out this history of the issues of your life from your family members and it brings clarity to your ministry session of what the Lord's going to do.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, go for it. That's so good, that's so good. Um, let's last question here. This is this is fun what are your favorite Bible verses or stories that help us on our journey of being delivered from evil, and even the evil one? Any stories that kind of pique your imagination and you can go to Jesus? I can think of a few right now, but love to get your take.
Speaker 2:There is the Psalm I think it's Psalm 52, where David cried out to the Lord and the Lord heard his cries and the Lord answered. We include that scripture within our ministry session and every time when the ministry receiver the person receiving ministry reads and repeats that verse, the power of the Holy Spirit just enters the room. Growing men just start crying, because it's a point of surrender, it's a point of knowing and confessing.
Speaker 1:Lord, you are here, Uh, you've heard everything that I've cried out to you, uh, but I need your help, Lord, Um, and yeah, that seems like a very good thing to do is to ask for help, and this is the awesome promise of God that he will hear, he will answer, he will give us the Holy Spirit. You know, he's given us the Holy Spirit, obviously, in baptism, baptism, and he continues to pour out the Holy Spirit. The comforter, the connector, the consoler. That is the work of the Holy Spirit, the truth teller, the spirit of truth who points us to the word of God. So I pray this conversation today.
Speaker 1:Listener, if you've got a visceral reaction against anything as it relates to deliverance, maybe you need to get delivered to that. Maybe you need to talk to someone and confess. You know I got wounds and for those of you that have come out of a charismatic experience where there was a lot of legalism, I pray there's just more of an openness to say, hey, I love my Lutheran heritage, the traditions that we have, and also there may be areas, because we're all broken sinners. There may be areas where I'm stuck and I simply need a kind guide, a spiritual father or mother to come alongside and help me get unstuck, to confess sin, to receive the forgiveness of Jesus and to walk in the freedom of faith. This is what we have. If you have anxiety, like there's not one part of us heart, body, mind, spirit that Jesus doesn't say mine and I want to make my own and I want to mobilize for a life of meaning and purpose and sacrifice and service, if you find yourself, listener, just kind of turned in on yourself, with a spirit of maybe it's not just anxiety, sadness, like this overwhelming feeling, and you could, you could label it depression, but it's just, it's on you.
Speaker 1:You know this, this sadness. Go talk to someone, go talk to a pastor, go talk to someone who can recognize. You know this is a spiritual, this is a spiritual battle and the light and love and joy of of the Holy Spirit wants to rest upon you to take away that sadness. And there's a lot of sad things, there's a lot of traumas that happen. None of us get through unscathed, isn't that right, Tim? There's going to be pain and suffering In this world. You will have trouble, but take heart, have courage. I've overcome, I've overcome and he continues to overcome. So lift up your eyes to the cross and empty tomb of Jesus and see the goodness and grace of God delivered for you through the work of the Holy Spirit creating, sustaining, strengthening our faith and dependence in Jesus. Anything more to say there as we close, tim, this has been great.
Speaker 1:No it's been great. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, man, it's fun. Blessings on your school year and pouring into the next gen and praying for many, many more years of fruitful ministry, both there at Valley Lutheran and caring for the souls of many believers in Jesus. It's a good day. Go make it a great day. This is the American Reformation podcast. Sharing is caring. Like, subscribe, comment. Wherever you take this in, we promise to have more provocative conversations, not just with lead time and kind of staying in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod context, but moving outside to learn from different areas of ministry where the Lord is at work, anywhere that someone bends the knee to Jesus as King and Lord man. They're my brother and sister in Christ and I have things to offer them and I have things to learn from them. I pray that's our posture today. Thanks so much, tim. It was a blessing to me.
Speaker 2:Thank you.