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American Reformation
We believe the American church needs reformation. To go forward we must go back. This podcast will explore the theology and practices of the early church and other eras of discipleship multiplication and apply those learnings to our post-Christian/secular American culture. American Reformation is a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective. Follow us at uniteleadership.org. We consult, bring together cohorts of congregations for peer to peer learning, and certify leaders for work in the church and world.
American Reformation
Breaking Down Barriers in Modern Christianity with Lee Jackson
Hit the play button for a thought-provoking journey as we sit down with Lee Jackson, co-founder of Distinctly His Ministries. Together, we unravel the pressing need for reformation in American Christianity, highlighting the transformative power of unity and love. Say goodbye to insular church practices and hello to embracing diverse communities, including those in the inner city. Lee and I discuss the importance of serving others without a "savior mentality" and envision a church that transcends denominational and economic divides, fostering an environment of genuine Christ-like love.
Sports fans and faith seekers alike will find common ground in our exploration of how athletics can shape identity and spiritual growth. As a football coach and ministry leader, I share personal stories of mentoring young athletes to embrace their God-given talents with humility and teamwork. Discover how the dynamics of a sports team mirror the body of Christ, where each member's unique gifts contribute to a greater purpose. Let the parallels between the field and faith inspire you to view sports as more than just a game but a metaphor for life itself.
In the digital age, Generation Z faces unique challenges, from rising anxiety to the pitfalls of social media. We address the impact of NIL deals and the transfer portal on young athletes' identities and team dynamics. Meanwhile, professional athletes are humanized as we explore their personal struggles and the importance of faith-based support. Through genuine interactions and heartfelt connections, we emphasize the value of building relationships that nurture both the spirit and community. Join us as we celebrate legacy, endurance, and the power of relationships that expand the kingdom and touch lives.
Welcome to the American Reformation podcast, tim Allman. Here I pray the joy of the crucified and risen Jesus, who sent you the comforter of the Holy Spirit. No matter what you're walking through, the highest of highs or lowest of lows, our triune God is with you. It appears to me as if the entire Bible is written to let you know God is near and he is trustworthy, and the crossing empty tomb of Jesus proves it to be the case. So I get to hang out today with Lee Jackson. I was connected to Lee Jackson through Jordan Bessling Shout out to Jordan. He connects me to a lot of folks in the Texas area.
Speaker 1:Now Lee lives in Dallas. He was brought to Dallas to be the sports director of a ministry called Mercy Street. You can look it up Mercy Street, dallas. Amazing, amazing work. He helped build a $22 million sports facility, caring for and mentoring inner city youth in Dallas, and now he and his wife co-founded a ministry called, distinctly, his Ministries. This is going to be such a fun conversation as we talk about caring for the next generation. This is so huge for me, lee, and I know it is for you raising three young girls, for me raising three young teenagers. Man, we need mentors. We need kind guides alongside our kids. These are interesting days. I don't lament the days, lee, by any stretch. They're the days that Jesus gave us to be passionate followers of him and to raise these young people up to be light in the midst of the darkness. So, lee, how you doing, man? Thanks for hanging out with me, dude.
Speaker 2:Oh man, thanks Tim, I appreciate it. Man. This is awesome. This is great. I'm excited to be on.
Speaker 1:The joy is mine. So as you look at the wider American Christian church this is kind of our standard opening and you get it you get the feel I mean, you've worked and you're working in a parachurch ministry right that handling, you know, walking alongside all different sorts of partners in the body of Christ, united under the cross of Jesus. As you look at that broader landscape of the American Christian church, how are you praying for reformation, lee?
Speaker 2:Jesus, as you look at that broader landscape of the American Christian Church, how are you praying for reformation, lee man? I mean we're praying every day for seeing us to come together under Christ man, with love. I mean we have to show love, we have to be willing to serve one another. We have to be willing to be open to serve, but not just serve, but to help others realize what Christ was all about. He was all about how. What God was all about was love. And so we got to be able to say, hey, I got to be willing to be uncomfortable in the uncomfortable situation so I may love somebody to Christ.
Speaker 1:Amen. So what do you think? Let's go deeper there. What are some of those situations that you see? Folks maybe shine away from the discomfort? I have a few thoughts there, but I think human beings in general, this is sin. Right, sin is selfishness, sin is isolating me from the other, wherever the other happens to be, and we can become very, very insular.
Speaker 1:right, the church has a tendency to become very, very insular and forget the church has a tendency to become very, very insular and forget that God has a mission and God's mission has a church right, so, and that mission is always for the other. That was the way of Jesus.
Speaker 2:So get a little bit more specific about the discomfort that Christians should maybe actively seek, lee, yeah, I mean, sometimes we are so captivated with our own audience, our own sheep, our own congregation, and we forget to jump out into the world. We forget to jump out in the inner city communities. We want to go across seas, and that's great, and I think we need that as well international missions, we need inner city missions, we need neighborhood mission work. But sometimes we get so caught up in these are my guys, these are my sheep, these are my followers, instead of going.
Speaker 2:Hey, we are here all together, working together under the banner of Christ, and because we all here under the banner of Christ, we are here to show you love, like brothers and sister, as God called us to be, not to be separate, not to be separate because of a denomination or separate because of a neighborhood, or separate because of your belief or your foundation, of where you grew up economically, because sometimes you go. Well, I got to go in and I got to go on the Savior mentality, instead of being the one who goes. Hey, I'm just going to come in and I got to go on the Savior mentality instead of being the one who goes. Hey, I'm just going to come in as a brother to serve, with resources to bring that we're open hands. That's what we fail to see in self.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I couldn't agree with that more. You mentioned denominations. I'm a Lutheran right, I'm a. I'm a lutheran right, I'm a third generation lutheran follower of jesus. But my primary distinctive marker is a jesus follower and I'm in a. I'm not. I'm not like beaten lutheranism. I like. I love the history, I love what, like, martin luther brought.
Speaker 1:Uh, it was a message of grace. It was a message of by faith alone. It was a message of grace. It was a message of by faith alone. It was a message of scripture alone. All the solas right. And then we're a sacramental church body. I think there's a lot to be said for how God wants to commune with us, how he wants to claim us baptism, lord's Supper and this kind of high value of the word of God. But, by goodness bro, if you look at the sociology in my tribe, we still have some petty power plays that take place and we do not disagree agreeably. We don't confess sin as readily as we could. Maybe we put the Holy Spirit into a box and so we got a lot to learn right. And I'm speaking if you're in a certain denomination and you can't honestly look at you and your group of people and make some honest assessments leading to confession and absolution, centered in your identity in Jesus.
Speaker 1:Something's wrong If you can't give an honest critique of the group and this is like I'm a part of it, you know, so I contribute to it, so I'm not. This isn't like throwing stones at Lutherans and the Lutheran church, Missouri Senate. This is like I'm a part of this family and it can be messy and we got a lot to a lot to learn. Anything more to say about what I'm. What I'm speaking into is just that posture of humility, as we hold very few things with a closed fist. Most of it's just with his open hand.
Speaker 2:Hey, I got a lot to learn from my brother and sister, who may come from another tradition, anything there, lee, oh man, I just, I want you, as just we as a whole, as a body, we can't forget we are the body of Christ. I think that's one of the things we can't forget. One's an honor, one's a evil, one's a harm, but we are a body. One's an hour, one's a year, one's a harm, but we all are a body. And because we have different ways we grow up, ways we live, but we still are the body and love, what keeps us all in front of it.
Speaker 2:And you know, and I think that's what we have to do, is keep the cross in front and going hey, we're here because of God's love and him getting off that cross, not staying on that cross, but getting off that cross and raising on the third and allowing the Holy Spirit to be here, to live within us. You know, leaving the Holy Spirit for us to go and say, hey, we are connected, we are here and because of Christ, we should love, because of God called us to love, because he is love, and so we want to do that, and so we got to be able to change the culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you love sports, right? You play sports growing up, yeah, all day. What sports did you play growing up, dude?
Speaker 2:I grew up playing baseball football. I ran track uh, those things, that's, that's what I did, you know did you play high school college? So I played. I played, uh played baseball in high school and in college. I played football as a redshirt freshman in football and then ran track in college. So I went to Mississippi Valley State for two years and then I transferred to Warner University up in Florida, to Warner University up in.
Speaker 1:Florida Okay, yeah, we got. I played small school football and baseball as well back in the day Shadasky, concordia University, seward, nebraska, the Bulldogs there. But sports teach so much. Maybe before we get into ministry I'd just love to hear what you think sports. I'm a football coach right now my son's a sophomore in high school, so I'm a. I'm an assistant football coach, been about 20 hours a week, uh, with about 55 young men, as we're a 3a kind of mid-sized christian christian school here in phoenix. And man, football teaches so much.
Speaker 1:You mentioned, like gifts, like so many different gifts, sizes of guys, you know skill, arm strength, maybe mental acuity, all of those types of things, and yet we're able to tell those boys all that's good, you should use your gifts, but none of this actually defines you.
Speaker 1:You're defined by a son of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And now, out of your identity in Christ, let's grow up, right, let's grow up. And I think we're struggling today to recognize diversity of gifts, diversity of, maybe, outcomes that come, but centering in the mission of Jesus, every human being is of infinite value and worth, so much so that Jesus came down. So how do we speak those words of, hey, you're. You're diverse. How do you find your unique gifting Cause you're that sport or that artistic that may not be you, or that, that subject, that may not be you, but let's find, like how God hardwired you and then just fan that into flame and then bring humility with arms open wide to learn from people who have diverse gifts. That's what the body does. So anything about how sports kind of play into that body metaphor that Jesus uses Lee.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, no for sure, I mean me being in our ministry right now. We take high school kids to college tours, and I'm talking about I got some of the best of the best kids to college tours. And I'm talking about I got some of the best of the best. We just had the number 13th player in the country commit to Oklahoma who's been on the bus with us on a couple tours some of the other guys but me getting out there enjoying it, running a football camp with, with 15 former NFL players, all believers. We get a chance to share all about how, individually, each person has a job and a role and responsibility to help and better their team, and so being a part of a team is so important. It's a great analogy of just kind of helping them understand the body of Christ, going hey, you are God's ambassador and because you're God's ambassador, you have a role to play. And what role is that? We don't know. Just like on the football team, you have a position and you won't. You're not the quarterback. You might be the receiver, and so you can't get the ball unless the quarterback gets you the ball. But you can't be mad if the ball don't get to you, and so trying to help them understand hey, you got to create your craft and really be exceptional at it, continue to grow at it, work at it. And that's what we have to do as believers in the body of Christ. We have to, as God's ambassador, we have to get in his word, we have to dig into it. We have to really in his word, we have to dig into it, we have to really grow in it. We have to really understand it and define what we do. So, if this Bible is our sword, we got to be great craftsmen, great swordsmen, to be able to understand how to best effectively use this thing. And so how do we use this game of football? It gives us so many parallels to the Bible of how we can continue to see that everybody have boundaries.
Speaker 2:You really play within these white lines, and these white lines define what you can do and can't do. You only got a certain amount of plays and you all are focused on going into one goal, and that's going into the end zone. You know every time you want to win, but it's always a winner and a loser, just like the gospel. There's a winner, there's a winning team and there's a losing team, but then we have rules that comes from up above. Our rules come from God. The Bible is inspired by God and so if we got these rules, that's coming in. We got rules that come in from whatever.
Speaker 2:Who officiates all your games. They have a rule book, and that rule books tell them what you can't do and what you can do. And a lot of times in life we got coaches, we got players, we got other people that say, hey, this is what you can do and can't do as part of this game, and that's how we're going to live life is, hey, there's some things we can't do and some things that we can do that God give us grace to do, so we gotta be able to stand on it and do it. And so I love football. You get me in it, I'm all in it.
Speaker 1:I'm all in it. I'm all in it too. You got me laughing as I thought about this last. Uh, my son, who's a wide receiver? Uh, he's a slot, he's playing F and also free safety. But he caught his first, his first touchdown in in high school as a sophomore. So that was, that was cool. 31 in the yard, little dime to the back of the end zone, that was cool. So he caught it and on film he he then spun the he did. It wasn't like a cocky spin, it was just like he was super stoked and he was like gonna go jump with his buddies and stuff and he just like there was a side spin and the ref caught the spin.
Speaker 1:The ref was like, right there, and I guess this year they just had a rule there's no more spinning. And we got a 15 yard penalty which killed us. Killed us on the kickoff because we were gonna do an onside kick and who knows how the game. We end up losing by 10 points to a much bigger, bigger, stronger team. So we fought 38-28. We lost, but using that rules analogy, that's great.
Speaker 1:God has laws that are ingrained in us and play within those laws. And yet here's the wild thing about grace, about the gospel of Jesus Christ is, even when we play outside the lines, even when we spin that football, when he didn't actually know it was, he was breaking the rules, but even when the penalty comes, jesus takes a penalty. That's what the cross is all about. The gospel of Jesus Christ is kind of like unfair, because when we were sinners, when we were playing outside the lines of God's love, this gets to identity right. Christ died for us. He, actually God, became sin for us on the cross so that in him we might be called the winners, the righteous ones in Christ, solely by faith the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:It's like there are some metaphors that really work within sports, because sports are pretty much it's all law, law right. There's a winner, there's a loser, put in the time, and yet you're still a winner in Christ. Everyone by faith is is a winner in Christ. I love that. So we got to get into more of your distinctly his ministries. You talk about touring around a little bit with kids. Tell us the advent and the deeper story of co-founding that ministry with your wife, man. What a cool story. Started in 2019, not too long ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's been a passion of ours to really engage our community. And so we are here in Dallas and we engage in the Oak Cliff community as well as the West Dallas community. Well, we really get to focus on the family. I think sometimes we miss that. We only focus on certain areas of people's lives, or we only want to focus on the sports, or we want to focus on the kid, or some people just go focus on the adults, some people just focus on homelessness. No, we focus on everybody and our goal is to see that family thrive with the Lord. You know what I mean, because sometimes we can go in and we can share the gospel with a kid and the kid can go home, but everything that their family are living or their parents are living is contradictory to the gospel. And so they like we really don't like you, or we really don't accept you, and so a kid end up falling down into the ways of the world because this is what my parents done. And so we go out there and we evangelize not just the parent, just the kid. We talk about everybody, we invest in them and that's really helping them understand that we are really diving into your family to become part of our family.
Speaker 2:Me growing up as a homeless kid. At 13 years old, I realized when I was by myself, I had no one, and so I don't want people to have that, and so we help bring resources to our youth that we mentor. We mentor these kids in the school system. So a lot of times they go hey, you can mentor me at home, but they miss it. At school. I can act like I'm all I can, be the worst person in school, but when I get home and I'm around you, I'm going to be good. So for me to, for us to really engage them, we go hey, we're going to engage you in the school building where your teachers, who got a perspective of you, they're going to be able to see how you act in front of us, they're going to be able to. The coach is going to be able to see how you act in front of us, and then the principal, and so other people, your friends, because your friends are going to go. Oh, you go to that mentoring deal. You're talking about leadership, you're talking about Jesus, you're talking about serving, but when you're at home, out in the streets, you're talking about you're you talking about you talking about selling drugs, you talking about fighting and jumping people. You know you talking about this. And then when you get home and you're telling your parents you're being disrespectful or you're not, you're not leading with love.
Speaker 2:And so we go to the homes and we do stuff for them, like Christmas blessings, where we help them with the things they need. We don't give them things that they want. We give them what they need. We don't give them things that they want. We give them what they need School things for school, clothes, shoes, coats, jackets, heaters, stuff like that for everyone. But then we take care of their parents and then we help those parents look for jobs. Their parents don't have jobs. We help them If they want to start a company or they want to start something. We help them with that whole process. We give them a attorney, we help them with classes. We even help them get started financially. So we are there for the whole family, not just an individual. But we start through the door with the kids. Sometimes Lee.
Speaker 1:Well, you're being like that's the way of Jesus. The breakdown of the family today, I think, is one of the greatest epidemics we have. Right, we're, we're struggling and that's this is cross socioeconomic spheres, like this is cross racial, like the whole thing. We're just struggling. It's like a direct assault against the family. I love that you start. You start with family. So get, get us behind the curtain just a little bit more. When you enter into, maybe a dysfunctional family could be single parent or want you something, something like that you mentioned, like resources, training what do you do to work with it? So I'm going to talk about the family, like in-home stuff, a little bit more specific, and then I want to hear the vision of like you're in public schools talking about how is this even working out? You know that kind of. So let's start in the family and then we'll get into the school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what resources, man resources. So sometimes they need financial resources because of everybody struggling right now with this epidemic of financial security, and so we help out with that. We have some partners that partner with us. We have some some great supporters that kind of help us fulfill those needs. Some of people need food, so we partner with some food banks and some other places.
Speaker 2:Um, some kids they struggle with clothes for school and stuff like that, so we can help them out with their uniforms and stuff, and so, um, and then some parents go, hey, I might have just got laid off or I'm looking for a job change.
Speaker 2:I need something that's gonna really help take care of my family. And so, uh, one person we had in mind, uh, that I got in mind is a guy who who had a car, who had a truck, and he wanted to start his a moving company, and so he was like, hey, I'm trying to do this. But then he got connected to somebody who they were just moving stuff back and forth to different cities for just trucking stuff and so, but he needed money for insurance, a horse truck and some other things and some parts fell apart. So we was able to help him because that's what his job was, was to provide for my family. So we helped him get his truck fixed, helped him get his insurance and all that other stuff, and he's doing great with his own company and he's able to take care of his six kids and his and his fiance, you know. So we get a chance to hey, let's go to church. We want you to go to church with us.
Speaker 1:You know I was going to ask about that. Yeah, I was going to ask about church, like are you connected to local churches? Then too, cause that's the power right, it's community, correct.
Speaker 2:Correct. We can't. We can't do it alone. That's one thing. That's why we are called a Penn Church ministry, because we got to come alongside the church and be the hands that the church can reach and then bring them back to the church, and so we push them into different churches I mean whatever closer to them and those who we got relationships. They kind of go, hey brother, hey, this is a pastor. I meet with them to say, hey, this is a buddy of mine, this is a family, this is what they're going through. They might need some extra support and just to need them to get connected to the body, and so a lot of them come to church with us just to come visit One family.
Speaker 2:We had a single woman, younger lady, had five kids and she was struggling. We walked with her for two and a half years. Wow, we had some friends help us, bless her with a car, because her car was down, she couldn't get to work. We knew some other people. We were looking for somebody like that, so they found her and they was able to help get her a car, and you know what I'm talking about. It was just awesome.
Speaker 2:But she was starting being in church all the time she started serving, because she started knowing how good the lord was and what she really needed. My wife walked with her every day, um, just checking with her. Once a week they were doing Bible studies. They jumped into a church Bible study together just to be a part of it. Young lady starts serving at the church. And then, when she was getting ready to move, she just moved just a couple months ago back home to Ohio. We end up helping her with her move back to Ohio. My wife's still engaged with her just to follow up with her. So when we go to Ohio we go visit her and her family just to continue to love on them.
Speaker 1:And so we stay checking on them man dude, that is so good. People change because of a vision of hope, and if that vision isn't offered, man, we self-destruct and we become this is a power of the local church, like the local church is the hope of the world. The church understands we don't exist for ourselves. We exist for the least, the lost, the lonely, the hurting, the marginalized, wherever they happen to be, those that are walking in darkness, those who may, on the other spectrum, be walking in the pride of self-sufficiency, in darkness, those who may, on the other spectrum, be walking in the pride of self-sufficiency. The church has to engage with those that are far and offer them a vision of hope, a better day.
Speaker 1:And that hope, it seems counterintuitive, right, that hope always comes by giving your life away, by seeing this vision of oh my goodness, I could become self-Jesus, sufficient, right, my life could become put, I could put my life in order.
Speaker 1:And then, just as I've received, I'm going to give my life away. Just as I've been served, I'm going to start to serve. That appears to be the way that Jesus entered having everything at his disposal, humble himself, even at the point of death, to serve us in our sin and then to give us the hope in this life and in the life to come, as he defeated death for us. And then you see this radical revolution, reformation of the early church, just going out into diverse contexts and serving, bringing, proclaiming the gospel, which is the greatest service right, the hope of Jesus, and then being the hands and feet of Christ to the hurting and the marginalized, what they saw Jesus do and say they did and they said we cannot help but proclaim the one who's called us out of the darkness of our own sin and self-sufficiency into the marvelous light of sacrifice and service for the other. Isn't Jesus and following Jesus like the best thing ever, lee, amen?
Speaker 2:Amen, you are not wrong, man. And I mean, right there, tim, I'm telling you, it's so amazing to see when somebody feels the love from what God has given to you and you just walk it out in front of them. I mean I get so much joy helping others, I get so much joy sharing the gospel with others. I get so much joy with just walking alongside of people going, hey, you know what, we love you and we want to help you and we want to be there for you and we want to support you.
Speaker 2:It's like that in the schools the principals, they love us being there because you know why we get to help them. We might go clean up the cafeteria. So the cafeteria, ladies and people like us, we walk alongside the coaches. The coaches go hey, I got a separate voice, so now I get a chance to one share the gospel with the coaches, share the gospel with the principals, and I get to share the gospel with everybody I'm in the school with, but the only thing I do is just sharing love to all of those people.
Speaker 2:And so now the kids love what we do. We have fun, we play games and we bring them food. So that's another thing that they come in and say, hey, this is something different than the food you eat in the cafeteria, but we let you get the cafeteria food as well. So we're bringing you snacks and games and fun and sharing. We're sharing really life on life with these young men and women I'm talking about. We're talking about real leadership. We're talking about real love. We're talking about real, real, authentic, about who you are and how God created you and made you, and so we're allowed to do that because of how we love everybody else. That's how we get in the day.
Speaker 1:Lee, God has such an awesome calling on you and your wife's life. Man, what an impact you're making, and I also think of your three daughters that get to see you guys. I mean, what an incredible, incredible ministry. And I'm left wondering does every urban center have this sort of a ministry that's entering into high schools? I mean, this thing needs to scale, Lee. You need to scale this. Are you talking about that at all?
Speaker 2:We haven't. We haven't yet. Every school does need this. They don't. We wish we did. We're trying to find ways to really get it scaled up like that, because if we were able to do that, man, it would help that we would bring so much to the schools. It would help we would bring so much to the ball clubs and the different football teams and the sports teams and stuff like that, because, at the end of the day, all our young folks need it. And so we got non-athletic students in our program and because of that it's like hey, they're able to connect with some of these student athletes because they got us in common compared to, oh, I just see them at the game and see them in class but we really don't interact with each other. We give them some tools to be able to interact with each other and know that, hey, you know you're an individual loved by God and God is in you and loves you and you are supposed to share that love with each and everyone.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. Hey bro, let's dig in to the Anxious Generation. Have you read the in to the Anxious Generation? Have you read the book the Anxious Generation at all? I have not. It just recently came out and it talks about the rising anxiety in Gen Z in the last decade or so, really since about 2010. The advent of the front-facing camera, obviously, social media and a lot of the destructive effects there. Their main thesis is that societally, we're underprotective in the digital space and we're overprotective in physical, real space. The helicopter, parents keep them from getting hurt or kind of figuring out boundaries, all of that kind of stuff but then it's just a wild wild west as it comes to what's going on online. So any words of wisdom and discipleship that you, words of wisdom that you give to young people as they engage in the digital space, lee.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So a lot of guys, a lot of guys that I've talked to that we talk about, because I have so many guys that we got 63 kids in college right now playing Division I football and other guys inspired to want to do that and so a lot of those guys that I talk with, social media is a part of what they say they're branding right now and because of that it depends on what you put on. Social media will affect how far you will go and live, and so if you want to be a Division I football player, you cannot put a whole bunch of trash or garbage on your social media. It's just that clear. But then I try to help kids understand you use social media as a tool, not as all your needs, and I think sometimes you can use social media that can hurt you then help you, and so they want to show all this different stuff or who I'm hanging out with what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Most people right now in this NIL world this can be very dangerous with so many young folks in high school getting paid, because it's more of a dangerous situation. If somebody really don't like you, they can see where you're at your location because you post and this is what I'm doing, where I'm at, and next thing, you know, there's an altercation because you got money, because, or the image say that you got money social media says or portray you has all this money, but you don't have the money, and so you can get caught up in a bad situation. So I think sometimes people got to be very secure about what they do, what they post, but be very particular and specific about what you're doing. You know, is it going to help you?
Speaker 1:I mean I, we could go deep into the NIL conversation right now. Generally, what are your thoughts? Good, bad, moderately? What do you think about NIL? And it's wild that it's moving down Again.
Speaker 1:Being a high school coach, we had some kids, I guess, get approached by a group to sign on with this group, that's, you know, guaranteeing X amount of dollars or whatever. For those of you that we just whatever, uh, for for those of you that we just lost name, image likeness, we're starting to pay individuals and or groups of individuals are starting to pay the top tier high school and college athletes. Um, I think the that money is the root of all kinds of evil and I don't know if this is going to be a good thing generally, especially for our youngest of people who are I heard it from a tight end recently is connected to our church. It's a nephew of one of our members and he's like between Oregon and Washington right now, both of them guaranteeing him one year for $200,000, right, he's playing his senior year of high school football. He's 6'6", he's a freak, right.
Speaker 1:I mean he's just huge and they're guaranteeing him that. I mean, that's unbelievable, that's kind of crazy to even consider when I was playing, and you were playing college football, right. So thoughts on NIL generally and what this is going to produce in us societally.
Speaker 2:Man I am, I mean I going to produce in us societally. Man I am, I mean I'm for nil. It's always been a. As I look at it, it's from a business perspective. You know, um, kids have been getting nil. They just been calling it scholarships. That's all it's really been.
Speaker 2:You know, we was, we worked for the university because they paid our money to go to school. Now, now they're giving people actual money in their pockets. That's more than just a scholarship because if you look at it, some of the kids where I come from growing up I could have used that money. I didn't receive a dime from anybody other than what I made at college for school and so I could have used some money like that back in the day. Because I'm working hard, I'm giving all I can and I'm going to school and so sometimes right now, it helps some families, some youth Now going down to high schools.
Speaker 2:That's a little different. You know opinion on that, because you're taking the amateur status out of high school football and, like I said, in college the amateur status has been gone a long time. You know these guys have been doing this stuff. People have been getting paid under the table. It was just legal, you know, yeah, so I think NIO is a good thing for colleges, high school right now. I just don't know. I think it could really hurt a lot of people and kind of create a lot of division.
Speaker 1:I can see that I think I generally agree with you, and I am not a fan, though, of the Wild Wild west of the transfer portal.
Speaker 1:Now we're like way away from jesus and stuff like that like I, I think it, I think it's gonna hurt, I think it's hurting underclassmen. I, I, uh, I think it hurts. Like team camaraderie over years, like as a fan, I'm, I'm an asu fan, like I don't even. I know this is arizona state university. I know we got like 20 guys or something like that in the transfer portal right and they're, they're coming in and you're trying to like read up on their background. This dude, our quarterback, played at michigan state last year.
Speaker 1:Anyway, it's just kind of wild. It's for the fan base, it's. It's really, really difficult because I like watching kids grow and now I got a whole new set of kids that left and have come. It's kind of wild. I think there ought to be more restrictions, some sort of a restriction. Here's my idea. I'll get your take. But if you're in a Power Five conference, if you're playing in a Power Five school, you stay in that school, you make that decision. And then you got, I think, guys that maybe went NAI D3, d2, like they grow at 20, 21,. And AI D3, d2, like they grow at 20, 21, and they came in like 190, and now the kids have put in some work, like let that kid like transfer into a Power 5.
Speaker 1:That's great you know, but yeah, any take on the transfer portal.
Speaker 2:I think the old rules were the best rules. I mean, you used to lose a year. I think we stopped having commitment when the transfer portal opened up. There were a lack of commitment, like now a guy can go hey, I don't really like this school, so I'm going, I'm transferring, and it's a lot of people getting stuck in the transfer portal and so they have nowhere to go and so they're just trying to figure out what they can do. But yeah, the transfer portal is tough. Yeah, the transfer portal is tough and I think it's teaching us a lot about our commitment, a lot about growth and the struggles that you went through in the process. Now, in certain situations, like you said, you can transfer down. I think that's what was good.
Speaker 2:Those rules were great back in the day. You know, if you transferred over, you got to sit out a year, so you lose that year and you lose the year after, so you're losing two years. Most people don't want to transfer if I'm going to lose two years. That kind of helps people stay together and go hey, I understand, I got to work through this and then let me grow through it, let me go through some hardships a little bit so I can understand who I am one as a man, as a believer or if I'm not a believer, who do I trust in? You know, a lot of times people go in and go hey, you know, because I'm good and I was the best high school guy. Don't realize, don't think you're going to jump and be the best college guy. That don't work anymore. You know you're going against grown men who are the best at what they've been and they had years experience. So you have to sit up under those guys and I think we are starting to lose. We're starting to lose respect for what other people have to say. We're starting to lose. I would rather learn from somebody mistakes instead of me having to go through those same mistakes. Learn from somebody's mistakes instead of me having to go through those same mistakes, and that's something that we're losing through this small piece of the game. How committed you are, how selfish you are, how team Are you a really good teammate? Are you a team player? Most people won't be team players because I can get up and lead, you know.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes you can lose value in different organizations. You know you go well. If I'm taking a job and I got to compete at my job. I got to get my job done. Now, if I can't compete at my job, then I get fired, and if I get fired then I got to go find another job. You can't just go hey, well, I'm not doing so well, so I'm going to go to that job and that job won't take me. No, that job don't have to take you. And so I think we're creating that type of program right now in our youth.
Speaker 2:Is that, if it's not for you, or if it's not going well or you're having a really hard time, just go somewhere else. You know, there's no commitment. There's no commitment, and I think we'll see that fall into our religion in a minute or in faith. It's because people going hey, this is just religion and so I'm just gonna jump to this because this feels better for me, uh, but we don't feel so good, so I'm gonna go over here. You know, I'm gonna just skip over here. This is me, so nobody's now.
Speaker 1:Now we're talking dude, because we live in an entitled culture. I want what I want when I want. I don't want any kind of suffering. I don't want challenge. I'm the man you know, and sports can feed into that ego big time. And when I get proverbially punched in the mouth or some other guy kind of steps up, do we? Do we step up or do we cower? I mean, christians should be the most confident and humble. At the very same time, we understand who we are, how God made us. Hopefully we got people speaking into our blind spots and hopefully we got this is the power of the body of Christ and mentorship. Hopefully we got like wise guides, spiritual fathers and mothers who are speaking.
Speaker 1:When we want to bounce, they say no, no, no, no. You made the commitment, let's stick and stay. They say no, no, no, no. You made the commitment, let's stick and stay. And you bring it to the local church man.
Speaker 1:As a parish pastor now for 16, 17 years, I see it all the time right. Are we a family? Are we in it together? Or when you get challenged or something goofy happens or an expectation doesn't get met, do you bounce and find another family. It's really, really dysfunctional right now and I hope the body of Christ can model something different and encourage the next generation to model something different in terms of of commitments and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So sports teaches a lot. It also can get pretty pretty sideways. It's good, bad, the ugly, our sin nature seeps into athletics a big time. So let's last couple of questions here. Bro, you've been around professional athletes a lot in your life. Generally and I have a few former professional athletes that I'm, that I'm friends with right now Generally what stereotypes about professional athletes do you think are are spot on and what stereotypes do you kind of kind of reject as we, just because a lot of folks don't get a role in the circles? I mean 22 million dollars for that sports complex you were hanging out with a lot of, a lot of dudes, as they say, right in their in their craft.
Speaker 2:So so talk about that a little bit I think, um, man, the stereotype is, um, I think sometimes we put them as celebrities and they're just regular people. You know they are regular people they are. They are regular guys who do life just like everybody else, who got a wife, who got kids, who just want to be regular. They just do their job very well. You know, I think sometimes we misunderstand that they're human. We misunderstand they make mistakes. You know they're a human. We misunderstand they make mistakes. They're not perfect. When we put them on this pedestal to where, hey, they can't fall, no, we just mess up, just like they mess up.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes we got to give grace to some people that falls, that struggles, because that's just part of their struggle and their story. Because they're a celebrity or because they're 1% in their job doesn't mean that they can't miss out, you know. And then I mean to be realistic. Sometimes, man, we forget to treat. We treat them as celebrities but instead of treating them as people, as individuals, as they are, brothers and sisters in Christ and some who are not, I think we have to realize that we have to engage them with regular conversation, you know, and really care for them, not because you can do this great thing, or you can play this great sport and be the best at it. I think we have to go hey, how's your heart? How's your heart, how's your life doing? How is being an ambassador for Christ doing? Because you are on a pedestal and your platform is huge and so many, so many times you can see the enemy coming at you from afar, in the locker room, in the clubhouse, in you know, in life, you know how do you handle that. Sometimes. I think we miss that. You kind of get a good understanding of hey, you are one of the 1% in the world that's doing this job and you're the best of the best. And we're just trying to ask you for how can we pray for you? How can we support you? How can we love you the best way we can do, you know, and that being, I think sometimes people get messed up because people always think this, because they make all this money but they need to give it away to everybody else or they need to give it to you, and I think that's one of the big understandings. He got to take care of family and sometimes he don't have to give you anything, but he is called a field love to give it to you. I think that's a good thing you know. And so jordan came down to.
Speaker 2:I used to do a baseball camp with Clayton Kershaw. I ran his camp for a couple years probably about seven, eight years and my job for Clayton was, when he came down, was to be available. I don't want you to have to go ahead and teach kids how to shag balls or throw pitches or anything. I want you to get to know the and teach kids how to shag balls or throw pitches. I want you to get to know the kids in the community because they're there for him and for them to get to know him and his heart and what he truly believes and what he really loves. Man, that's one guy I can tell you who loved Jesus. Oh, my goodness, his heart is all about Jesus. He loved so much and him and his family and his family. They are beautiful, they're wonderful and they are real down to earth people, and so sometimes you have to go.
Speaker 2:Hey, I want kids and people to know you that don't get that opportunity to get to know you. It's just like I bring these former NFL players in because I want them to get to know the community. I want them to go. Hey, I want you just to serve, but be available to serve. You ain't got to go. Do all these drills, you don't have to sell.
Speaker 2:I want you to hang out with kids. I want kids to ask you questions, just to get to know you as an individual, not as somebody that they analyze. But they can go. Hey, you know what? I hung out with this guy. I hung out with that guy and he told me how much he loved Jesus. He told me why he loved Jesus. He told me why he gave his life to Christ. He told me when he got baptized and you know why he made the decision to get baptized and he gave me you know, he gave me some encouragement of what I need to do as I walk every day in the school as a high school student or a middle school student or as an elementary kid, you know. So being able to have those conversations, I think that's where most people go. I don't think they want to hear that. No, they just don't want all the rest of it. Sometimes they yeah In that effect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, professional athletes need and any athlete needs pastors, needs people who will pastor them, shepherd them, care for them, treat them, treat them just like a human being with certain wants and needs and dreams and failings and shame and guilt and the whole thing. You know, the funny thing is about Jesus like he was so and is I shouldn't say was he, is he still reigns right.
Speaker 1:So, jesus, people pay little respect. I guess we pay little undue respect for people's earthly station. Right, because we know what is in man we're going to live and we're going to die. We got a certain amount of gifts. Hopefully we leverage our gifts and our leadership, hopefully we steward it well to influence other people in in the Jesus direction of humility and kindness and sacrifice and service Like.
Speaker 1:But there's this, is it's kind of the death of a dream of a kid, you know, because you grow up and you're like, oh man, I could maybe be a professional athlete, you know. And then you're like, well, god, you had to do it for me in ministry. I'm like, thank you, jesus, that you didn't make me just a few inches taller and slightly faster, because then, like, my ministry path would have been totally, totally different. Not that God wouldn't have redeemed it, but I got a taste of what athletics is, and you got that too, playing at the college. But then you just get to treat other athletes.
Speaker 1:You know the mentality, you know the trappings of trying to find your identity by what you do rather than what's been done for you. And so you can just sit with people, no matter their station. They can be millionaire, billionaire, it doesn't matter. They could be select, it really doesn't matter. We're just going to love them as a brother or sister in Christ, an image bearer of the crucified and risen Jesus, and pray for them. That they would steward I think it's all about stewardship, right that they would steward their time, their days, their resources toward Christ's end rather than the ends of self and the world, anything more. Because at the end of the day this is my last question, I'll just let you riff on this, bro At the end of the day this is my last question.
Speaker 1:I'll just let you riff on this, bro. At the end of the day, we're going to run this race. The Apostle Paul says we run with endurance. The Hebrew says with endurance, keeping our eyes firmly fixed upon Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith. There's a sense of urgency to our ministry, and what do we want people to say about us after we've run our race with Jesus and it is run, do you ever think about that? Because the legacy are the people. It's not what we've done, it's the people that we've touched, the lives that, by the power of the Spirit, we've changed. Do you ever think about that whole legacy as it relates to relationship?
Speaker 2:there, lee, yeah, oh man, I think sometimes I think with legacy. I think we have to focus on what do we leave behind? What do I leave behind to the next person or the next generation so it can continue to keep going? And I always want to go. Hey, I want to point him to Jesus. I want to point him to Jesus. If they remember me by anything, they just remember me. Hey, lee loved Jesus. He always pointed me to the cross. He always pointed me to Jesus. If they remember me by anything, they just remember me. Hey, lee loved Jesus. He always pointed me to the cross. He always pointed me to love. He always shared the good news. That's what I want to be learned by, to be known by, to be left by.
Speaker 2:If people come in and they go to my funeral, I want them to be able to say you know what? All these folks are here? They were there because Lee was there for them. He wasn't here because, hey, he did the best, or he spoke the best, or he taught the best, or he coached the best, or he hung out with all. No, we were here because Lee was there with us. He lived life to life with us and he loved us the way Christ would love us, that's what I want to leave.
Speaker 2:Well, nothing else. They can say you know what Lee loved us like, that's what I want to lead? Well, nothing else. They can say you know what Lead love? Just like Christ would love us. And because of that one, hopefully. They say I came to know the Lord Jesus because of that and I walk with Jesus every day and the Holy Spirit will use me. But then I want to be able to go hey, at the end of the day, I'm not here to win the approval of man, you're not here to win the approval of God. I would rather hear well done, faithful servant over any and everything else. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Grace, you're going to hear it, bro, oh man, I would love to see that train of folks to be able to clap me down Down the line and then to him and then go hey, at the end of the day, I support and I clap for Lee because of the love he had for me, because of Christ and the love that he did with him.
Speaker 1:Ooh, yeah, yeah, man, we need to celebrate people more today and the unique gifts, and I just think of that line, that line of saints, that cloud of witnesses, those that have gone before and those that will come after. And there's definitely a fine line here between taking too much pride or whatever. But I think one of the things that sports does, man, when something good happens, we're going to celebrate together as a team. People need to be celebrated in life when they bring beauty and goodness, kindness, creativity into the world. We need to be celebrated. And to close here, you know what I celebrate.
Speaker 1:I don't know if we're probably a similar age. Man'm 43. Here's what I celebrate got my right arm, hey, I still got a little. I was a quarterback, I still got a little juice in this right arm, you know. So when one of the 18 year old kids say, hey, coach, still got it, there's a part of me it's like yeah, yeah, I couldn't be hit, lee, I don't, I do not want to be hit, but I can. Can still throw a pretty nice ball. So I'm still.
Speaker 1:One of my second, third, fourth, fifth identity markers is I'm still an athlete. Well, I got breath in my lungs, you know, I'm still an athlete. Jesus made me, he made me different, he made me physical, you know, and I love sports, so this has been so much fun. The race that you're running with distinctly his ministry man. It's having a deep impact in Dallas. If people want to maybe talk, hey, set up a Zoom call with Lee to hear how he's doing it, how he did it, and maybe you're in an urban center I'm in Phoenix, right. Maybe there's a leader in urban Phoenix that wants to hear about how they could bring Distinctly His into their unique context. If people want to connect with you, lee, how can they do so?
Speaker 2:A way you can connect with me is you can connect with me on all social media platforms. You can go to our website, distinctlyhisorg. You can come to my email. It is lee at distinctlyhisorg, or you can reach me at ljackson at distinctlyhisorg or you can reach me at LJackson at distinctlyhiscom. So if you really want to reach me, you can reach me in those areas and you can find me on Facebook at distinctlyhis, and Instagram as well. Underscore distinctinguished.
Speaker 2:So, just know we're here to really love on people. Man, I want to say, tim, thank you for having me. I appreciate it Me helping reliving some of my old days as well, because I was a quarterback and I was a pitcher.
Speaker 2:And so I still am hurt just a little bit, and so I still hurt just a little bit. I only can throw just a little bit, but I still got a good ball. I still got a good ball. That's what the key is. I throw good a little bit, but one is I want to say thank you for allowing me to be on here and share the love of Christ. And one is, like I said, god has placed some good men around. You know, for instance, clayton Kershaw is a great brother. He's a great friend. I love him to death. I love his family and what they do.
Speaker 2:Walt Harris, who does some stuff for the NFL, and former NFL player, pro bowler, 14-year event. Chris Dran, who played 12 years in the NFL. These brothers, they love Jesus. They all around, hang out there. They're out there doing the work. Thank you, jordan, for connecting us. Oh, man, we got a chance to hang out and I love Jordan and his family and his wife and everything, and so just being able to do that. I got kids that are from out there in Phoenix. Matter of fact, I got a couple guys out there. Man that's playing football and having fun. But let's catch up, we'll have to connect.
Speaker 1:Let's catch up, baby. Yeah, this was so fun. This is the American Reformation Podcast. I'm Tim Allman. This is Lee Jackson. Connect with him in his ministry. Pray for him. It's good, good kingdom-expanding work, it's a good day. Go make it a great day, man Lee. Thanks so much, man. This was fun. Thanks.