.jpg)
American Reformation
We believe the American church needs reformation. To go forward we must go back. This podcast will explore the theology and practices of the early church and other eras of discipleship multiplication and apply those learnings to our post-Christian/secular American culture. American Reformation is a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective. Follow us at uniteleadership.org. We consult, bring together cohorts of congregations for peer to peer learning, and certify leaders for work in the church and world.
American Reformation
Navigating Burnout and Building Resilient Ministries with Pastor Kevin Bueltmann
Imagine navigating the challenges of ministry without feeling overwhelmed or burnt out. Pastor Kevin Bueltmann, the director at Shepherds Canyon Retreat Center, shares his inspiring journey from burnout to healing, and how he now dedicates his life to supporting other ministry leaders in similar situations. Discover the critical importance of creating a supportive community where pastors can thrive, sustain their ministries, and find joy and hope even amidst the pressures of leadership transitions.
Pastors in medium-sized congregations often juggle multiple roles with limited support—a reality we explore in depth. Learn how building a ministry team and support network can distribute the weight of pastoral responsibilities. Highlighting the untapped potential of the boomer generation, we examine how their passion and experience can enhance church ministries without financial strain, empowering volunteers with meaningful roles to drive the church's mission forward effectively.
We also dive into the essential traits church leaders need in a post-Christian, secular culture. Through Pastor Kevin's personal anecdotes and lessons from Shepherds Canyon Retreat, we discuss humility, resilience, and the necessity of self-care for maintaining a balanced life and ministry. Hear inspiring stories of spiritual renewal and transformation, and gain insights into how shared experiences can foster healing and resilience within the American Christian Church, with a hopeful outlook on its potential for spiritual reformation.
Welcome to the American Reformation Podcast, tim Allman. Here Today I get the privilege of hanging out for the first time with a brother in the ministry. His name is Pastor Kevin Biltman and he is the director at the Shepherds Canyon Retreat Center, which I've actually, I and our team, kevin, I don't know if I told you this, I didn't tell you this, I and our team, we were blessed to be at a retreat about a year ago. We were doing a visioning retreat and man, dave and Barb Anderson, what amazing hospitality we experienced there. So how are you doing, brother? Before we get into the conversation, it's great.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was so, so wanting to be at that retreat because that was just like a couple of days before I arrived. It was actually two years ago, but yeah, it was right before I arrived because I've got some friends on staff at your place and so I was bummed that I couldn't be there any sooner.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's all good. Well, we're going to get into your story but before that kind of a standard opening question how are you praying for Reformation? As you look at the broader landscape and given your work at the Shepherds Canyon Retreat Center with ministers from Lutheran and many other kind of church backgrounds, you get to see the good, the bad and kind of the ugly of ministry and the joy that comes through suffering with the Savior, Jesus Christ. So as you look at that kind of broader Christian landscape, how are you praying for reformation there, kevin?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, my prayer is that God would strengthen and heal his wounded warriors and keep them from going AWOL, in other words, that our pastors, ministry leaders and spouses would find help so they could be strengthened to serve in ministry with joy, so they don't lose hope and drop out. So that's what I would pray for.
Speaker 1:Ah no, I love that. I've been a pastor now 17 years and you use wounds Shout out to Henry now and kind of the wounded healer paradigm, because that's truly what we are, and especially as those in a Lutheran tradition. It's the theology of the cross in real time that our wounds are suffering. It is a testimony to the only one who can heal us. And a lot of times in our culture, even in ministry, we're prone to say you know what, I'm just fine, no one needs to see me. You know sweat or struggle or trials, you know, and even pastors can have that kind of hero mentality like and you mask your insecurity with pride and you mask your insecurity with pride. And we have a hard time sometimes developing close friendships where we can share our struggles and receive prayer and care and love. And I know that's the heart of what Shepherds Canyon Retreat Center is all about. So before we get into Shepherds Canyon, tell just a little bit of your ministry story and what kind of led you into leading at Shepherds Canyon, kevin.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, well, I've been in ministry for quite a while, since the late 80s here, and I started off working with youth and music at congregations in Illinois and Montana and then ended up in camp ministry and served in Nebraska and Illinois and then eventually went to seminary and ended up getting called back to the very first church that I served at in Montana because they had their own camp and everything and so I served up there. So I was the camp director and then also one of the two pastors there. And then, right before COVID hit our senior pastor, so I I was the camp director and then also one of the two pastors there. And then, right before COVID hit, uh, our senior pastor. Of course he didn't know COVID was about to hit and he took a call, uh out of state, and uh, the elders said hey, why don't you just hang on for a couple of months until we find another pastor and you know to be, to be to be a leader of this congregation? Find another pastor and you know to be a leader of this congregation.
Speaker 2:And, of course, if you know anything about pastor shortages, especially in our denomination, it was a year and a half and I knew it would be a while. But you know, part of that pride that you were just talking about kind of said is like, oh, I can do it, I've never failed, I can do this thing here and all that. So so, yeah, I just kind of jumped in and said, okay, let's do this. But after a year I was just burned out. I was just angry at everybody. I was angry at God. You know why have you forsaken me, had very few of the fruits of the spirit at that time and I just wanted to quit and be a Walmart greeter, because at least I knew how to greet people at the door.
Speaker 2:I was a professional at that and ended up leaving the church and went to a marriage ministry. Because they said, hey, you don't have to work weekends or evenings, we only want you to work during the week because we want healthy workers in this ministry. And I'm like, is this a Christian ministry? And it is, and anyway. So I worked there for a while, loved it. But then Shepherds Canyon Retreat, where I went four years ago. I went there for a healing retreat and that turned things around and but then ended up they said, hey, we want you to come here to work for us. And so my wife and I did, and then, a year ago, they they said hey, our founder is, you know, ready to retire, and so they wanted me to be in charge. So that's how I ended up here. It's just a group of a lot of broken people all helping other broken people heal, so it's great, I love it.
Speaker 1:That's, that's it. If you don't mind, can we go back to that year and a half in the parish and I kind of had a not probably as serious, I guess of an experience. But when our associate pastor left, um, we had about a year long, nine month year long interim and I remember going to a because finances it was COVID too and finances are a little questionable and can we afford, you know, to get another pastor? And I remember one of my elders, long time really, a father in the faith, spiritual father in the faith. He looked at me and he could. We were still running two campuses and I'm preaching four times a weekend and preaching probably 90% of the time.
Speaker 1:And, um, I had I mean, there were other Vickers and support staff here, but I mean it just the, the weight of it was was pretty, and I didn't tell. I didn't tell any people about it, to be honest, you know, uh, because of my own pride probably, and and maybe I didn't even, like you, don't even stop long enough to assess how over worked burdened you actually are during that time and and that father in the faith said, hey, we have to call and that team set into motion If we hadn't extended. Pastor Michael Hyden's now been with us here and he's an amazing compliment. All the things I wish I could be in a pastor is Michael and man. The Lord's hand was just all over that because I could have gotten to that. I could have gotten to that place as well. So if you don't mind sharing just a little bit more of the details of that story, was it just the weekend, week out, grind the sermons, all the counseling, just kind of the weightiness of it. What was it for you, Kevin?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no. Well, as I look back, I realized that it wasn't just burnout, it was really something that we call compassion fatigue and what that is. And if people in the medical field or military know what that is, is because it's when you're caring for other people more than you care for yourself, you're not caring for yourself. And so like, for example, as a pastor, you have your sermon every week, but then you've got a funeral coming that you just found out about or something, and then someone just ended up in the hospital and then you've got somebody calling you up complaining about something here, and so it's kind of like this triage situation, like in an ER room and stuff like that. Here For me specifically, yeah, I think, well, see, because I an ER room and stuff like that. Here. For me specifically, yeah, I think, well, see, because I had gone through and I was trying to explain to my elders that I was burned out, I needed help. I even asked for help for like a short term intern and they refused to do that and and so what I did is, um, um, yeah, they, they, uh, it wasn't until one Sunday. I mean, I was just like so, so burned out that one Sunday I forgot to say the words of institution Now in our denomination. That's a big deal, um, but uh, I just forgot, you know, somehow.
Speaker 2:And then during the middle in between services, I was just a wreck and two elders came in to kind of remind me not to forget that the next service. And then they saw these tears in my reddening eyes. They're like, wow, I think there really is something wrong. Kevin needs some help. And then they didn't know what to do. Is something wrong? Kevin needs some help? And then they didn't know what to do. But at least now they finally realized, after you know over a year, that, uh, you know I needed help and I was crying for it, but they just thought I was just, you know, whining or something I don't know.
Speaker 1:But uh, yeah, it was a tough it was a tough period of time, hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pastoral ministry is. It's just difficult, it's just difficult. I don't know what else to say. Pastor Michael that I mentioned, his mom actually tells a story of, when he said he was going to be a pastor, that she started to cry. The heaviness of it is bearing, it is compassion fatigue, it's, it's uh, look, look back over all of the different people I've cried with and and it's not just cry like wept, the, the, not just the death, but maybe the suicides and and but to have like. The only way I've kind of made it, I think, is it has to be about a team of people who are bearing all of it together. And so we've got a spiritual care team of about 25 people who are providing compassionate care connecting with the homebound and the hurting and the hospitalized, every single week, you know. So I'm on it, and Pastor Michael is actually our care, our care pastor, not that I don't care, but this is like his his main gifting, right, and so I think it really is.
Speaker 1:It's finding your sweet spot and then building a team around the areas where man this, if I have to do these things and, for instance, like for me, if 80, 90 percent of my job was spent doing care ministry, that would not be one, in my, like, sweet spot of gifting, because I'm more of a like the visionary kind of rah, rah, galvanizing type of a guy Right, so I have to have a team built around those things that I can do but but maybe shouldn't do the majority of of the time. There's all different types of pastors. I think one of the misnomers is to be a pastor, right, kevin, there's a cookie cutter mold that you've kind of got to be everything for everybody.
Speaker 1:And that is very, very dysfunctional. Any observations too, as we move into your work at Shepherds Canyon and how pastors kind of feel like they have to fit that mold.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's. The thing is that sometimes and I've been told and I'm trying to observe to see if this is really true it seems like it's very true. Where pastors in really small churches are fine, pastors in really large churches are fine. It's a lot of the ones that are in between that, where their church is maybe not big enough to be able to afford a second staff person or whatever here, but yet they have the responsibilities and they're moving towards a large church model, but they're still not quite there yet. So it's that transition where pastors are caught in the middle of having to do it all and stuff.
Speaker 2:But yeah, but I think it's really important to have not only a team to surround you with in ministry, whether they're staff or volunteers, but also a support team that I've never had, where you get like a handful of people that they're not there to judge you. They're just there to make sure that you know are you, are you being funny? Are you financially? You know, are you, do you have help? You know, are you exercising enough, are you eating right? Do you have the right kind of healthcare housing?
Speaker 2:Just to kind of be an advocate, because when you, as a pastor or whatever church worker go to say, to tell someone else at your congregation, your board or whatever, that hey, you know, I mean asking for your own salary raise. That's just really really awkward, because because we all took a vow of poverty, you know, and we're not supposed to be concerned about money and all that. But anyway, it's just good to have other people kind of speaking on your behalf, as opposed to you sounding like, because then that just makes it so much harder for pastors to get help. Because you're right, like you said at the beginning, yeah, it's hard to reach out because it's hard to be too transparent to your members about your problems, and when you gather with other pastors, at least in some denominations, you feel like you're just there being judged as opposed to being supported, and so it's just a whole interesting conundrum.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that is a heavy thing. You need an advocacy team. I hear you talking. You need an advocacy team. I hear you talking, you need a prayer team.
Speaker 1:That can be kind of one and the same, I think, in some contexts it may be the elders who are kind of lifting up your hands and partnering with you. But yeah, to go it alone is not an option. And I kind of resonate with that kind of medium size. Kind of resonate with that kind of medium size. Maybe it's a congregation that's worshiping 150. In our denomination, over 45% of the congregations are worshiping less than 50, which is hardly able, they're hardly able to sustain. You know one pastor. So a congregation worshiping 150, you can have one, maybe one and a half kind of full-time staff members and you're just trying to make it to, uh, to cast vision. You're, you kind of at a church that size you kind of wear well, you do wear a lot, a lot of hats and and one of the things that you all see kind of teaches is how do you build a staff but you don't pay for them? How do you start to build a team before you have the resources? And here's another little shout out right now.
Speaker 1:I really believe one of the strategic opportunities for churches, regardless of the size and specifically for that medium-sized church, is the boomer generation, early retirement, the mid-60s to early 70s. They don't need resources, but they're still looking for meaning and purpose, but they're still looking for meaning and purpose and they've got passion and energy to get about the mission of Jesus. If you can put that man or woman in the right seat on the proverbial team bus, man off you go, off you run. And I think they're there in a lot of our churches, but I don't know that we're shoulder-tapping them, having the ICNU conversations as well with them and giving them not just a task but responsibility, like an area of ministry, of responsibility, anything more that you've observed there, kevin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think that's no. You said it well, you said it well, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Hey, let's go here, as you're hanging out with a lot of different leaders not just pastors but other leaders who are coming through the Shepherds Canyon Retreat Center. What are the top three challenges that you're seeing in leading at the local congregational level right now? Yeah, what are folks working through?
Speaker 2:now, yeah, what are folks working through? Well, as far as like specifics, I don't have those because I actually don't even spend any time in the sessions with the people that come, because we have therapists and chaplains that come from out of state that come to help out, and so it's all confidential. They don't tell me why they're here, you know, and all that here. So, but I can't be specific. But I'd say in general, there's a lot of different things that people come for. I mean, a lot of it is burnout or whatever.
Speaker 2:Here, sometimes it's marriage issues. Sometimes people come here because they're getting ready for a sabbatical and they want to kind of focus on what do I need, and they use this week as a chance to kind of bounce back ideas off of people other church workers and also the therapist. But sometimes people even use it at the beginning of a sabbatical just to kind of launch with this healing and everything like that. But yeah, sometimes the problems are self-inflicted wounds and sometimes they're external. You know maybe what church members have done to them or something like that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, hey, no, that's, that's good as you look at building resilience in a in a church leader. Again, I'm not asking you to get specific, just kind of paint with a broad brush. What are the top three? You can choose three or four, whatever behavioral traits that you pray every church leader has, especially in these challenging times in the post-Christian culture, secular culture in which we find ourselves today. Top three or four behavioral traits that you pray they have.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, I would say that humility is part of that equation. I you know, because sometimes pride gets in the way and we don't even realize that sometimes pride can be like well, and pride comes in two forms. Sometimes it comes as pride being about, you know, boasting about something great, but also it can be self-pity, where we're complaining about something, and that's just that that. That that's the opposite side of pride, that we don't always think about but yeah so.
Speaker 2:So humility is huge, I would say. But let me think here. Say your question one more time, just make sure I got that straight.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, I mean just the behavioral traits, what. What do you hope our pastors are and leaders are known for um so humility, and I hear that that's kind of fascinating.
Speaker 1:The on the other side of pride, it's not just a boastfulness, right, it's a, it's a stewing, it's an internal kind of uh, pride, pride, pity party that you were kind of pride, pride, pity party that you were kind of talking about there and I think that may be, and I've done work on on the behaviors of a lot of leaders that may be more robust than than the kind of external verbose pride that can often be there and say that the senior leader who take but but no, it's the kind of victim mentality I'm going to. I'm going to keep it from you and I'm actually going to wear my victimhood as a badge of honor.
Speaker 1:And don't take that from me, don't make me talk about it, but then I I you mentioned you didn't have the fruit of the spirit, but I'm definitely not going to display peace. Give me a break. Don't you know how hard I work? That kind of victim mentality, that pity party that can take place, that's the opposite of humility. I totally agree with that, kevin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a whole book that has a whole chapter about that. There's the book. I forgot what the title is. It's not. No-transcript is below that. So just to keeping the priority straight um, also think too um that. Um, oh, I should have wrote these down. I didn't't think about this. Yeah so, um, yeah so so. So pride keeping your spouse or children or whatever here is, is number one. And then um, what about resilience?
Speaker 1:Yes, yep.
Speaker 2:Yep, definitely what does?
Speaker 1:resilience mean to you. When you hear the word resilience, what does that mean for the leader to you?
Speaker 2:when you hear the word resilience, what does that mean for the leader? Basically making sure that things are. You know that things in your life are in balance I guess that was what I was thinking of was the third one here is balance in life and ministry. Thinking about Sabbath keeping and things like that. You know, we don't brag about how many cars we've stolen or how many people we've killed, but we brag about how many days we've gone without taking a day off. You know, it seems like we're pride, prideful about that one commandment that we're breaking. You know, but even think about that. But it's a, it's a really important thing.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that's part of what gets some people in trouble because you know, again, pride getting in there thinking like you know, hey, god needs me to to work on this on my Sabbath because I don't get it all done.
Speaker 2:And uh, you know, it's like we're saying that you know, god, I don't think you're strong enough to get this work done without my help. It's like how arrogant is that of us to think that God needs our help so much that we can't take a day off? And that's just really another one. That kind of crushes me as well, as I know and how I could have been more. Because it's kind of like the father and son in the car, where the dad puts the son on the on his lap to drive around you know, the parking lot, just for fun, you know, and says, hey, son, try out driving and stuff, you know, is the son really driving the car? No, of course not. But sometimes we, you know, we, god is doing so much for us and through us that we think we're the ones driving the car and he's really the one working through us and in us.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's really good. That's really good. Anything else regarding traits you pray for for pastors to exude. I hear humility, I hear an understanding of your vocation, the order of your vocation, versus a child of God baptized in his name. And then I hear and then, as a husband or a spouse right, and a father or a mother, and then I hear a call for self-care. You didn't use that language, but self-care is not selfish. Heart, body, mind, spirit, own the morning, own the day. How well are we starting our day taking care of the temple of the Holy Spirit which is our body, right? And if that gets out of whack, our brains are intimately. This is a fascinating thing. Our brains are intimately connected to our digestion system, our metabolism, and, and maybe some of the anxiety that we have as leaders is due to the fact that we're not fueling our bodies with things that come out of God's green earth- and.
Speaker 1:I could go on a kick. I'm way into health and wellness and things like that. I actually just broke my hand. I coach my son's high school football team and I was playing scout team quarterback and I hit it on a helmet and broke my knuckle bone like right in there. So it takes six more weeks and the biggest thing well, two things. I can't type very well because it hurts to type, because my pointer finger you can see if you're watching is black and blue. But I also can't lift weights. I can't hold a weight in my hand, and that's like in the morning.
Speaker 1:For me, that's like the hardest thing the Lord teaching me, teaching me patience and things. So, nonetheless, I can do other things. I can still ride my stationary bike, which is cool, but just taking care, just taking care of yourself, this is not a selfish thing. This is actually a selfless thing which allows you to have more and more energy for others throughout the day. Anything more to say, though, about self-care there, kevin.
Speaker 2:Well, just one of the best books that I read since my burnout season, you know, was by John Mark Homer the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. Just an outstanding book, just a classic in just such a short time that it's been out. And I just started one today, called Unaffendable, and just how we, as Christians, we can be unoffendable because of why would we be offended by this or that? You know, it's like I don't know. It's just a really interesting concept that he's talking about. So, anyway, it's just a lot of books that I've read lately.
Speaker 1:That's good. So yeah, let's get into Shepherds Canyon just a little bit deeper. Tell us about something that would surprise the listener. That would surprise the listener to know about the mission of Shepherds Canyon Retreat Center.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll tell you one thing is that when I first started in this chair, being the director, one of the first emails that I got was from a pastor who said hey, I'm just like a zombie. I'm alive and barely moving. I'm not even sure I believe in God anymore and I'm just like, oh my goodness, is this guy even you know, fit for our, our type of retreat? And so, but I passed him on to our, our counseling care director. He's the one that you know vets, everyone make sure it's a good fit for for them and and and then a couple of months later, I didn't even know, but he was in one in one of our retreats and then at the end of the retreat he just came to us and said, you know, at our staff devotion and said this is the best week of my life. I can't explain to you how much this means to me.
Speaker 2:And then, a few weeks after that, his wife normally the wives come with, but his wife wasn't at the retreat and she's like who's this guy you sent back to me? This is not the same man I sent to you, and I'm so grateful. I want to help you guys out professionally with the gifts that God's given me and what I do for other ministries around the country. So here's my services. I want to do it for you for free. So it's just amazing of the changes that God can do through this, through this retreat center. It's just really surprises me. And of course, why would it surprise me? You know?
Speaker 2:God's here so.
Speaker 1:Amen. So break it down the average week. What is the average week or so of the retreat look like for pastors and other leaders?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so definitely. Usually we start on a Monday and end on a Monday. First day just kind of, you know, travel day, all that stuff here. Tuesday is story day, and that's the day where everyone and, by the way, we only have eight people at a time. It could be four couples, it could be eight individuals, but eight people. Plus we have two therapists, professionally trained, licensed, and I'll hear from there's a male and a female, both, so we can reach both perspectives there, and then we also have a chaplain that kind of focuses on the spiritual side of things instead of just the emotional side of things here, and so those 11 people will spend the whole week together here.
Speaker 2:First day Tuesday is story day, and that's when they're telling their stories the next several days. In the mornings it's group sessions where they're talking about things or going through lessons and things like that here, based on the stories that were told. It's all customized so it's not like just a cookie cutter program, but the morning they're telling each other stories and then the people sitting around I mean it's such a really amazing thing because they're hearing the stories of other people and there's some similarities or there's some differences, and regardless of whether they're the senior pastor or the worship leader or a missionary or a teacher. They all come together and they can share the things that they are struggling with and the commonalities. So then in the afternoons is the individual time, so like either individual or couples counseling, and they just break out into times and then everyone else kind of gets some free time.
Speaker 2:We have a beautiful site here. People can go around and enjoy, you know, the pool or the hot tub or hiking around in this area here and stuff, and then there's a full day off where they get a break. We take them either into Wickenburg, arizona, or Prescott, arizona, just places to visit, and then they come back for a few more days of sessions and worship, things like that. But the group stuff in the morning, individuals, couples in the afternoons, and then they have a closing ceremony at the end and then they go out. And so it's just been really. It's really neat because it's for all Christian denominations and a wide variety of people coming here. We have from all over the world really, because we like this week we have somebody here from Turkey, a couple of months ago, with people from four different continents here at the same time. It was amazing Anyway, but it's just yeah, so anyone anywhere can be a part of that.
Speaker 1:I know one of your counselors was in my wedding. Actually Shout out to Reverend Dr Justin Hanneman. Do you know Justin?
Speaker 2:Okay yes, yeah, he started his own thing in Nebraska now and he's doing great there and stuff. But yeah he's on our team, but I'm glad to hear that that's. That's great, that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he's a he's a good dude. I know he was for a time. I guess not anymore, but all right, coming down the homestretch here. This has been fun, kevin. Uh, talk about. Talk about your favorite stories of Jesus uh in the scriptures that are prime stories, metaphors that have sustained you in times of great trial and can offer hope to others walking through trial in leadership.
Speaker 2:Well, I would say probably, I would say one would be of Jesus in the boat sleeping and the disciples are freaking out because the storms all around, you know, and you know they wake them up. And hey, don't Jesus, don't you care if we all drown, and you know, cause, I know, at least in this ministry, that's kind of how the feeling is, at least where I was at. You know, it's like God, don't you care about me? I'm doing what I'm doing all this, this great stuff for you. Why can't you help me out here, you know, and so, yeah, so the disciples are like, you know all that, and uh, jesus is, like you know, calms a storm, basically, kind of uh, scolds them a little bit here about their lack of faith.
Speaker 2:And you know, and, and just how sometimes we, we do that too. We are those disciples who, how, sometimes we do that too. We are those disciples who, you know, jesus is there with us, you know, but along with that too, sometimes I use that story as an illustration of rest. You know, sometimes we don't get enough rest and we're like you know, hey, you know, but you know, I mean God rested. You know, during the seven days of creation Jesus slept in a boat. You know Jesus took naps. So I still need to get one of those T-shirts that talk about Jesus took naps. Be like Jesus, you know, but anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's really, really helpful. Jesus is so. It seems like the entire Bible is God saying trust me, have faith, you're not alone, I'm not going to leave you nor forsake you. I'm for you. Trust me and go on the adventure of faith. We're approaching. This will probably be released right around Reformation, oh yeah. And we're approaching. This will probably be released right around, uh, reformation, oh yeah. And. And we're approaching the story of Luther, and I mean that that is the call of the reformation story.
Speaker 1:It's not. It's not by works. No amount of prayers or righteous deeds are going to save you. It's solely by grace, through faith in Jesus and his, his work.
Speaker 1:And then your picture of I get to sit on Jesus' lap. That sounds kind of strange to say, but I get to be held by Jesus, I get to be comforted by Jesus. He smiles over me, he's carrying me, he's got great plans for me and all he's inviting me to do is to trust him and take the next step on my journey of faith, not to earn his approval he can't be any more proud of me than he currently is but simply to be light in the midst of darkness, to be his hands and feet, to be used by him but not used up by him. There's a difference there right to be used by him, but he doesn't want me to be used by him, but not, he's not going to, he doesn't want me to be used up.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think the apostles you get this sense in the early church that, yeah, there was martyrdom, there was suffering, there was loss, but the fuel of the whole thing was joy in the adventure of being carried by Jesus, the Holy Spirit at work in their life, the privilege that it was to walk through persecution and pain and trial so that people would know the hope of the resurrection in the person and work of Christ. And so, yeah, any closing comments, though, on kind of the posture of the leader being used by the Lord, but maybe not, he's not going to use us up, he's kind, he's not. He's not some kind of dictator on a throne. That's kind of vindictive toward us. He loves us desperately, kevin. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll close with this, and for those of you that are viewing can see this here, but I'll pull it out in a second here. But one thing that really surprised me about moving to Arizona because I had never lived in Arizona I lived in Montana, illinois, nebraska, never lived in Arizona here is one is that how cold it gets in the wintertime. I had no idea, and so my wife and I, since we no longer live on site per se, we actually still live in Montana, but travel all over the country, and so when we're here, we stay in a little, a little tiny trailer that we bought, and so I and so, staying here in January, it was so cold we had we had to sleep under four blankets, okay, wow, cause the heat wasn't keeping up. And then in the summertime, I'm like I'm going to shut off the air conditioning while I'm gone, cause why leave it? Why should I have an air conditioning on for three weeks while I'm going, traveling around the country? You know, preaching in different places here and stuff, and when I came back the first time, you know, of course, it's like 100 degrees out and anyway.
Speaker 2:So I come back and I find this in the trailer. Ok, I don't know if you can tell what that is, but it's a fake candle, ok, and it's made with real wax to kind of have that more authentic look, okay. And but it melted, okay, while we were gone and I'm just like, okay, well that now I learned my lesson. I don't keep melt, you know, turn off the air conditioning if I've got candles that I want to keep.
Speaker 2:And so I was on my way to throw this out and two of my staff came by and said, oh, hey, guys, look at this. And then one of them says, hey, see if it still works. So I'm like, okay. So I flipped the switch on the bottom here and, lo and behold, it works. And so then I told my wife about it and she's like well, kevin, that's your story. It's like you were burned out and you're in a different shape than what you were, but you could still shine the light of Christ to others in a different way in this ministry, and so so for me, so, so, so now I can't throw away this candle.
Speaker 2:So it sits here in my office just as as a reminder that, even though God has me in a different place, in a different situation, in a different shape, that I can still share his light with others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so good. Thanks for sharing that. You're a living example to the Apostle Paul Pressed but not crushed, persecuted not abandoned, struck down but not destroyed, and he's still got wonderful work for you to do. Kevin Praise, be to God. How can people connect with Shepherds Canyon and yourself if they desire?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean our website, shepherdscanyonretreatorg. If you know how to spell shepherd, most people spell that wrong, but if you know how to spell shepherdscanyonretreatorg, you'll find everything there Our phone numbers, emails and all that stuff here. Yeah, and we're always looking for volunteers, financial support, all that stuff and especially your prayers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and yeah, you've got my prayers. If I can ever support Shepherds Canyon in any way, kevin, or partner with the Unite Leadership Collective, I would be honored to do so. We're praying for healthy leaders, healthy leaders, healthy churches and. And health doesn't mean denying that ministry is hard. Health means identifying. Yeah, this is hard, but I'm not alone. I have, I have assets Um, I have the first off the Holy Spirit and I have the body of Christ and I got really, really kind and well-trained people who want to bear my burdens with me. And that's exactly what Shepherds Canyon does to raise up the prophet's arms, to keep them raised for the days that are too short to do anything else.
Speaker 1:Man, satan's coming after us big time these days, coming after leaders. I believe there's a turn that's taking place right now in America, for a variety of reasons and kind of the secular post-Christian day and age in which we live like it's just not satisfying. The gods of this day and age are being exposed for the frauds that they are and I think there's an upward draft of people who are going to bend the knee to Jesus as King and Lord and will they find churches and leaders who say you know what as they follow Jesus? I want to follow that person. There's a lightness to them. The fruit of the Spirit is evident in their life. They've walked through pain and struggle, but they've come out the other side stronger, more resilient, more dependent upon Jesus. That's what I'm praying for today. Any closing comments, though, to the spiritual warfare in which you find ourselves in Kevin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you said it well, you said it well.
Speaker 1:All right, man. Well, this is the American Reformation Podcast. It was a joy to get to know you, kevin. Sharing is caring, like, subscribe, comment wherever it is you take in podcasts like this, and we'll be back next week for another beautiful conversation about the Reformation that is needed in the American Christian Church. God bless you, kevin. Thanks so much. Bye.