The Tim Ahlman Podcast
The Tim Ahlman Podcast is your go-to resource for inspiring conversations that equip leaders to thrive in every vocation, inside and outside the church. With three primary focuses, this podcast dives deep into:
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The Tim Ahlman Podcast
The Story of Pat Hickcox and the birth of Alpine Cowboy Church
Pat Hickcox shares his remarkable journey from a military background through struggles with PTSD and a fractured relationship with faith to the founding of Alpine Cowboy Church. His experiences underscore the importance of love, community, and personal vulnerability in healing and returning to a life of purpose.
• Pat's military service and initial disconnection from faith
• The role of relationships in rekindling faith and resilience
• Addressing the realities of PTSD among veterans
• The transformative experience of caring for horses
• The establishment of Alpine Cowboy Church as a healing community
• The call for others to engage in service without special training or education
I've never been to college, I've never been to seminary, I've never been to you know anywhere. And I'm never going to be a theologian. I'm never going to be, I'll probably never be a pastor, but I know that God called me and I want to do if God calls me to do something, I want to obey Him.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Tim Allman Podcast. Pray. The joy of Jesus is your strength, that you're having a lot of fun, enjoying every single day that the Son is on the throne. Jesus is His name. He looks over you, he's proud of you, he's got a plan and a purpose for your life. You're baptized in His name, sent on mission to make Him known in places of overt and covert darkness. It's a great day to be alive, as I get to hang out with one of my favorite people on planet earth, a member of Christ Greenfield, an entrepreneur. You're going to hear his story. This is the originator of Alpine Cowboy Church, pat Hickox. How are you doing, pat?
Speaker 1:After that introduction, who could complain?
Speaker 2:right. Hey, no, the joy is mine, man, to get to hang out. So, before we get into kind of the ministry story, all of your life has been ministry, though kind of, as you're going to say, circuitous routes. The Lord never leaves us, never forsakes or abandons us. But you were called at a young age to serve the United States and protect our freedoms.
Speaker 2:In the military you had two stints of duty, the second one being right around kind of this internal call to go serve our country post 9-11. So what was your walk? Let's start here. What was your walk with Jesus? Like when you were serving our country in the military. We can kind of get a good frame. Like when you were serving our country in the military. We can kind of get a good frame. There are so many we stand on the shoulders of, so many like yourself, our veterans who have gone before to protect our freedoms. But, my goodness, is it a hard? Is it a hard calling Time away from family? I can only imagine. You know you're trying to grow spiritually, but it can be a hard place. Grow spiritually, but it can be a hard place. So shout out to all the chaplains who are out there too, that try to bring the word to all of our men and women in our armed forces. So talk about your journey with Jesus in those two tours of duty. Brother, thank you for serving our country.
Speaker 1:No, thank you and thanks for having me today, because this is kind of an important subject for me. So first time I joined the military right out of high school honestly, there wasn't necessarily a lot of patriotism with it, it was I graduated high school by the skin of my teeth. I didn't want to go to college, didn't want to live at home and I knew that I was not responsible enough to make it on my own. I needed some structure and my older brother had just gone in six months before me and I thought, yeah, that's a good path for me. So I was raised Catholic, believed you know everything that I had been taught. But once I kind of left the house and was on my own, especially in that military time, initially I didn't practice it, I fell away and just went about being Pat, you know, and so kind of fast forward to the second time I went in. So I joined the second time in May of 2003, shortly after the Iraq war kicked off, and by that time I'd been a police officer for 18 plus years, had served on our SWAT team and had kind of done and seen a lot. So I felt like I had something to offer the 18, 19, 20 year old kids that were going to be serving there. At the time, my wife and I were not attending any kind of religious services. We were not connected in any way. We were both believers, we just weren't followers at all. And so this is kind of a cool story.
Speaker 1:Shortly before, a few months before I deployed to Iraq, some friends of ours from Christ Greenfield invited us to go to church with them. I really invited my wife and, vicariously, me, and my wife did not obviously want me to go to Iraq. She was very much opposed to it and so kind of convincing her, I kind of owed her a lot and so when she said she wanted to go, I'm like, okay, you know, I'm not really that interested, but we'll go. And so we went to church and ended up going to breakfast with a couple of folks afterwards and it was nice, it was good, my wife really enjoyed it and she wanted to keep going and I'm like, okay, all right, no big deal, you know, I'll do whatever you want. And you know, after a couple of times she said, you know, I think I'm going to keep going while you're gone.
Speaker 1:And in my selfish you know needs or wants or whatever I thought this is perfect my wife is going to be taken care of, she's got people who are going to be with her and look after her and she's going to get plugged into this church and this group and I can go to war and I can do my thing and not have to worry about her. I can just concentrate on what I needed to do. It wasn't about me reconnecting with God at all, it was just, hey, I was going to do what my wife asked and selfishly not have to worry about her.
Speaker 1:And then in Iraq, my team, I had a satellite phone and about once a week I would call home and we would talk a little bit. She would tell me, hey, I'm really enjoying going to church and you know, she'd tell me about what they would do go to breakfast. And towards the end of my tour there she said, hey, I want to keep going to church when you get back and they have these new member classes that we need to take and I'm asking you to please take this class with me, and again, not out of a search for a relationship with Christ. At that time, simply to pay my wife back, I said, sure, I can do that, and of course. That's how God looped me in, smashed me and grabbed me back from the world and into his kingdom.
Speaker 2:The cool thing about that story to me is it's not about our intentions. The guy's like it's not about your, it's about my intention toward you, yeah, and I'll even take faulty motivations and whatever, because we're always, we're riddled with sin and our motivations are always wacky. Men and women turn in on each other. That's just the nature of sin. It's. It's selfishness, um, but God still is, is faster in, in pursuit than our selfishness, and he does. He'll take you, however, he can get you, yeah, and uh, and he got you kind of through your wife. That's pretty awesome. That that is actually uh, uh, probably a far too, but it is a common, common story and I think a lot of times for men, because we don't process emotions, feelings, you know, our, our, our brides, women just generally are more relational and, um, uh, feeling oriented and and, frankly, more verbal around processing how they're, how they're walking through life, uh, men do life shoulder to shoulder, women do life face to face and um, and so it's really really cool that I mean you've come full circle in terms of and you were going to, we're going to hear this part of your story in terms of, I'd say, spiritual, mental, emotional vulnerability, um, and how, how good Jesus is and how he's he's healed you, you.
Speaker 2:So maybe look at your story. How were people as you came back? You're a veteran and you can share as much or as little about this, but you've told me, just as a friend, you saw and experienced some hard things. What was helpful that people did as you kind of came back and got reintegrated, and maybe what was not so helpful. How did people treat or mistreat you? Um and I know you're not going to disparage any one person, but what was helpful for you, especially in your spiritual journey as you came back as a veteran.
Speaker 1:Um, really the most helpful thing were just the presence of others who, you know, extended their love and their care. I think for me and I think there's a number of veterans, a fair number of veterans who are like this, who actually served in combat we're very proud of what we did, we're thankful for the experience. We thought, hey, this is uh, this is an obligation and a duty that I have and I can participate in, uh, to serve my country. Um, you know, I had served in the army before for five years and and now it's like, and you'll get this because you're a football coach, you know you do all this practice time, all your two days and all that. And you know you sit on the bench for a long time watching everybody else, you know, play the game and then, finally, you know, here's your opportunity to actually go and play when it matters. Here's your opportunity to actually go and play when it matters. And that's kind of the way I thought about going to war was, you know, our country is. You know my service before was fine, but now it really I'm actually putting something on the line, necessary and so. But going back to you know what helped and what didn't Truly just people loving me, giving me space, understanding, maybe not understanding what I'd been through, but understanding that I was not the same as when I left.
Speaker 1:I frequently told my wife when I got home I'm broken, I don't feel right. She would say well, what do you mean? I don't know how to describe it other than I'm broken. There's something that's not right. I'm not whole, there's something that's not right. I'm not whole, I'm not, I'm not functioning, I'm just. I was broken and I really didn't know how to put it into words too well. But I like to tell people that my wife is the physical manifestation of God's love in this world. For me, she is the greatest worldly gift, I guess gift from this earth that he could have ever given me, and he has used her not just to bring me back to church but to help me, support me, put me back together, let me heal in amazing ways.
Speaker 2:That's the role pause right there I mean that's the Eve role in our precious wives to be a kind partner, one who comes alongside and lifts us up, gets our back spot, knows our blind spots and loves us nonetheless and is a cheerleader and champion. And, as I say, with my wife, you definitely married up with Judy there, pat, she is a gem, sweet, sweet heart, sweet spirit. So you kind of mentioned being broken. Life eventually breaks us, pat, one way or another. I mean preaching recently. Life is lost. It's inevitable. We're going to walk through suffering and trauma.
Speaker 2:Would you say that you had some form of PTSD? Were you ever diagnosed toward that end and what did that journey? Becoming beautifully broken. But you know, we're kind of like. It's kind of like a mosaic. We're never the mirror's been shattered. You know the, the innocence has been lost, but yet God pieces together the broken panes of glass into a beautiful mosaic. That looks like him, that looks like the suffering servant, you know, and he uses our wounds to heal the wounds of others. So tell me a little bit more about your healing journey.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So again, kind of going back, by the time I deployed to Iraq, I think I'd been a police officer for 19 and a half years, 19 plus years, and you know I had worked, you know patrol, I worked narcotics, I worked homicide, I worked SWAT, I worked homicide, I worked SWAT. I've seen every manner of murder, injury, assault, you know just all kinds of depraved things. I've had people commit suicide. You know when I'm literally within 20 feet of them, you know when I'm literally within 20 feet of them. So really, I think for me a lot of my PTSD was from being a cop. And then, you know, I went to serve and you know we had had some things happen over there that certainly contributed to that. You know I never used my service weapon as a cop, but you know, in Iraq that was a different story.
Speaker 1:So, going back to when you redeploy back stateside, they take you to whatever army post that you deployed from and they kind of go through what's called a demob or demobilization process and they you go and you get checked out by the doctor and you, you know, get various tests done and kind of just check boxes and and stuff.
Speaker 1:And honestly, everybody is so anxious to get home. You want to get through that process. You want no hangups and and everybody understands that Like if, if you say you know I have and this issue, you know whether it's PTSD or whether it's a physical issue or whatever it is man that's going to hold up the process, that's going to keep me from getting home, and I don't care, I just want to get home and I want to deal. You know I'll deal with that later. It's not that big a deal and so you know that's basically what I did. I never sought any help for PTSD. Honestly, at that time I kind of viewed PTSD as a choice, like you could either let it affect you or you could accept the fact that you had it, or you know, you could somehow control it. You know I'm a man, I can control this. And it wasn't until about 2020 that I could no longer deny that PTSD was a real deal and that I was in full-blown, you know, suffering mode because of PTSD.
Speaker 2:How did? If you're okay and you don't have to share anything, you don't want to, obviously, but can you go back? You know the chaos of covid and just the easy access to anger on so many on so many levels, yeah, so what did? How did it kind of manifest in 2020? It's like a perfect for a guy with your experience. Looking at the way the, the goofiness of the world connected to to covid and all the conspiracy stuff and just what's true, what's not, like it's eat, I can see how that would have been the season where it all kind of bubbled up and you crashed.
Speaker 1:What were the signs. Oh you, you have no idea how much you just nailed that. So in a couple of years leading up, I made several friends, and a couple of good friends who really who served the military in the highest levels of special operations. And you know one of my best friends, jamie. He did 14 combat deployments, again top tier, tier one guy, and I saw the suffering that those guys were going through and I saw the acknowledgement that PTSD was a thing and I think that gave me room and the courage to, you know, allow myself to start recognizing and admitting some of my own issues.
Speaker 1:And then, like you said, between COVID getting locked down, the George Floyd riots, protect people trying to do the right thing, trying to, you know, be brave and take on people who are violent. You know who threatened my life and you know lots of other things. And then you know, just to see law enforcement just trashed in the media and you know just this huge wave of anti-law enforcement, you know sentiment going across the country. And then add on to that the national elections. You know our presidential elections. That year I crashed.
Speaker 1:I just crashed, I was in deep depression. I was very, very angry, very angry. I could not contain my anger at times and, of course, the worst part is you know the guy that's going down the street who ticked you off and, you know, maybe you said some bad words or, you know, postured some gestures towards him. You know he's going to go home and it's like whatever, he's going to get back to his life. But the people that we heard are, of course, the people closest to us and the people that we love and who love us, the people closest to us and the people that we love and who love us. And you know so there's a tremendous amount of guilt associated with what you know, the damage that you've done to those people, and especially my wife, of course. So here's kind of how the story flipped for me this is.
Speaker 1:August of 2020. And we actually, you know, we were fortunate we were able to go up to our cabin and kind of get away from some of the COVID nonsense and again I was like I was 16 years ago when I got back from iraq. I was just, I just felt broken and I didn't know where to turn and I didn't know what to do. And you know, I I had this feeling like I wanted to go back and be a child. I wanted to go back to that innocence and no responsibility and no pressure, no heartache and no, you know, just good things.
Speaker 1:And out of the blue and I cannot tell you why I bought a saddle Now. I grew up around horses, but we never had horses. I've never owned a horse in my life, never had horses. I've never owned a horse in my life. But it was a representation, I think, of, you know, something in my past that I identified with and I wanted to get back to, and I think my wife thought I was a little nutty, which I was, you know and within two weeks of getting that saddle, we bought a horse property up in Alpine, just unplanned, you know, and this was, you know it was a part of my plea for help, you know, and again, my beautiful, loving, caring wife was there to support me and let me chase this ridiculous dream and idea.
Speaker 1:And then, six, not even six months later, I bought a horse, and that's and, and, and God used. God meets us in our brokenness brokenness, of course. And you know, he, he just laughed, he just wrapped his loving arms around me and held on to me and comforted me and gave me a room to breathe and a light to see and a direction to go in. And he used that horse and that property. Horses are just an amazing, they're amazing creatures. They really reflect your what's going on in your life at that time, what your mood is, what your angst is. And so when I got this horse and I got him up to the ranch, I couldn't saddle him. He was scared of everything. He was just very, very nervous. If I moved wrong, if I did anything wrong, he would just. He was reading my energy and it was making him anxious and nervous and scared, and I don't think he wanted to be around me. He didn't trust me.
Speaker 1:And again, god used that being of a horse to draw me into a relationship, one that I had to work on my patience and my own fear and that I had to control my own emotions in order to calm the horse and to gain his trust.
Speaker 1:And it's just been a cool journey since then. And I would say, you know, obviously, that experience reinvigorated my desire to grow closer with Jesus. That you know, because I recognized that all of this came from him. All of this love, all of this, you know, changing of my life the upheaval, and putting the pieces back together in a new and better and stronger, more beautiful way. It's kind of funny. I was thinking about, okay, we're going to do this podcast today and it's going to be about trauma, and I'm sitting there thinking to myself I don't know what I'm going to say, because I don't feel like now I've been through that much. I feel like my life is really, really good and you know, god has gifted me with a little bit of Alzheimer's, maybe because it's like that, that so much of that past feels like another life life and, um, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Uh, one, 8% of the population has some form of post-traumatic stress disorder. So you're definitely, definitely not alone. And the church meaning the visible, tangible presence of the crucified and risen Jesus, with a pinnacle point of the church being your, your wife and your family and extended friends and neighbors like we get to heal one another and it's almost like a new, new life is supposed to begin, like all the time there's supposed to be almost a date. Well, this is very biblical a daily death to self, a daily death to the past. It's been crucified. I've been crucified with Christ. I no longer live, he lives in me. Um, and so there is this holy we don't, we never really forget and the scars and things, but there's, it gets reframed, I think, uh, in a beautiful way we can kind of, and the older we get, hopefully in faith, we can look back and say that's, that's what you're, that's what you're up to. There You're shaping me in and through the struggle to be a wounded healer for other people, to bring hope to people that are hopeless and to bring word and sacrament to people who may not get to experience that, and that's what you and Judy have done. So, for those who are unaware, we've talked about this story in various contexts.
Speaker 2:At Christ Greenfield we launched Alpine Cowboy Church a couple year and a half ago or so as a seasonal worshiping community in Alpine, arizona. There was no Lutheran church there small little Baptist church, I think, but that's about it and it grows every summer from something like what you know the number is less than 500 to closer to four or 5000, I think, in the surrounding area and and Pat and Judy came to Pastor Michael and I and said we think we're ready had been in the back of your head, you know, since I remember having a conversation, probably in 2021, whether you were something like that. Do you think this could ever, ever happen? And yeah, we love to, we love to try new things and you, you just uh, you kind of undersold what the whole thing was, pat, because I was thinking, oh, it's going to be this kind of chintzy barn thing, and I'm not a cowboy guy and everybody knows that's true.
Speaker 1:I'm just a preacher.
Speaker 2:I'm a city boy, you know and and uh, but you're like, no, you gotta, you gotta, get up here and take a preacher. I'm a city boy, you know and and uh, but you're like, no, you gotta, you gotta, get up here and take a look, and and. So the way it's worked out for us now over the last two years it's been mutually beneficial, and I know, I know too you guys do so much work to be hosts every other week to vicars and pastors and those that are coming up there to serve and bring the the word. We had our first baptism a few couple, three months ago and it's just extraordinary. I think average attendance was somewhere between 12 to 25, somewhere in there, and people are coming to hear about Jesus.
Speaker 2:And then the other part of the story, this kind of test that we ran this last year, is, I said Pat, I mean church is going on every Sunday. We get, don't forsake getting together. So if we can do it every Sunday, that'd be great. And we started to film I don't know, we probably did seven, eight sermons face to camera from what we were preaching the upcoming Sunday sent out to you and so you were our first. I think there was going to be video venues into the future for Christ Greenfield. Let it be known, alpine Cowboy Church was the first, the pioneers, but it is the coolest manifestation. You got a grant from our district, one of the coolest manifestations of the body of Christ that I've been connected to. So I told it from my perspective, tell it from yours. Tell the Alpine Cowboy Church story from your perspective, pat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know again, there was just this tremendous amount of thankfulness and appreciation for what God had done to heal me, using this property and using animals to heal heal me, and I, I love Jesus, I love God, I love Jesus, I love God, I love our Father, and so I want to show my love for Him by doing something for him. I want to, I want to, I wanted to say God, I love you, and I wanted to do something to, to just pay him back a little bit, just just thank him, and so, and then obviously I, I wanted others to experience the healing that I experienced. And so really the first summer after we bought the ranch, Ed Lamb and.
Speaker 1:I did a men's retreat weekend up there and it was just, it was so cool and so wonderful and and we're like, okay, we need to do more, we need to do more. And so then that's that's when you know the idea of there's no other place to worship up there, you know, and LCMS there there was, there's. There's a couple other little churches there, but you know you're not welcome If you're not a member, you can't commune with them. Just really no place to go. And so I should back up Our next door neighbors in the cabin next to us.
Speaker 1:They are members of Christ Greenfield, have been for 28 years. Their kids and grandkids go to Christ Greenfield Right down the street. Our good friends, don and Patty, were lifelong not lifelong but long, long time Christ Greenfield family. We all went to church. Those are the people who invited my wife and I to go to church before I went to Iraq. So here we have this little community already there and none of us have a place to worship and of course we all missed our church family. So it's like, hey, this is a no brainer, I didn't have to think of it, I didn't have to plan anything. God put it in front of me I was tripping over it, uh, and, and you know, there was just no option. It was like this is what we're supposed to do, so so what are your dreams for Cowboy Church?
Speaker 1:You know, I I not that I don't, we do have dreams, I guess. I guess the dream would be um, we would like to section off you know, an acre of land or so, uh, on a ranch and build a permanent, a real church, you know, at some point, and not have it in our garage. That would be, you know that's. You know really the big dream, you know. But ultimately I don't want to dream too much, I want to be present with God and let him guide me and show me where he wants us to go, show me where he wants us to serve and who we can serve.
Speaker 1:And you know, that's probably been the most instrumental change in me is, you know, in my brokenness. I finally had to acknowledge that I was not in control, I had no control and, you know, I finally gave it up to God and I just quit being a controlling person, I quit, and so I just, I want to lay things in his hands and I want to hear his whispers and I want to follow his lead and I just want to love people. Sounds simplistic. I want to love people, I want people to experience God's love through what we do there in Alpine and I want to be we talk about. God is for us. I want to be for others, for Christ.
Speaker 2:Christ, pat, I don't you know, life comes in seasons and I hope, I hope I get to live to be an older man to see kids, grandkids and great grandkids. But as I look back, 20, 30 years from now, getting to know you and to be a part of this missional venture will be one of the highlights of ministry life for me, just life in general, calling you a friend. So thanks for saying yes to what the Holy Spirit put in your heart. What would be your last question? Prayerful challenge to church leaders who think they could never support or maybe launch kind of micro church expression like Alpine Cowboy Church kind of micro church expression, like Alpine Cowboy Church.
Speaker 1:God works through so many different ways and so many different things and so many different people, and I would have never imagined that I could do this. This was never a dream of mine, it was never something that I planned to do. God put it in front of me and God does not. He calls all of us to serve one another and to love one another and to minister to one another and to share the gospel and share the words of Jesus, the salvation of Jesus, the forgiveness that we all receive if we just ask.
Speaker 1:And that's not restricted to any one body of people. It's not for men of a certain age or a certain race or a certain national origin or this kind of person or that kind of person we're all called. God loves every single one of us. God saw through my sin and my rebelliousness for him, and yet he loved me enough to fix me, to call me and to prepare me to serve others. And I've never been to college, I've never been to seminary, I've never been to you know anywhere. And I'm never going to be a theologian. I'm never going to be, I'll probably never be a pastor, but I know that God called me and I want to do if God calls me to do something. I want to obey him, I want to, I want to serve him.
Speaker 2:Well, you may not be, you may not be an ordained pastor, but you're pastoring, pat, by setting space for people to encounter the crucified and risen Jesus. So thanks for thanks for saying yes, and can't wait to see what the Lord does in the coming years in this wonderful, wonderful ministry. You know where there are no churches really we should just focus on? I'm just going to get back to the basics, like, let's focus on just discipleship People loving and caring for one another, growing on their walk with the Lord. That's right here, with you and your two neighbors, longtime folks and let's just invite other people to come and do that with us. It's kind of that simple. That's the church, right Wherever the word is spoken and people rally around and say, hey, I need the forgiveness of sins, you need it. Yeah, I need it too. Let's let's raise up some leaders in a variety of different ways or ship them in from the Valley to help bring the love and mercy of Jesus. So this is so amazing.
Speaker 2:If people want to have a personal conversation with you, like maybe somebody, a seed's been planted, someone lives in a place where they're like I have no idea what a microchurch is like and it's going to look different in your respective context, but maybe you don't have a Lutheran congregation there and you'd like to explore planting with just you know three to say you got a small group. Let, with just you know three to say you got a small group, let's get it. If you got a small group, let's. Let's explore making that a word and sacrament space and hearing that story. People want to connect with you, pat. How could they do it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, easiest way is email, and that's Pat Hickox. Last name is H-I-C-K-C-O-X at Yahoocom. Pat Hickox's. All one word Um, love to hear from people, and I would love to, um, you know, help anybody who has questions, you know it's.
Speaker 1:I think if I could just say this, there's, um, there's this idea that serving and being a minister or, you know, just serving God, going out and doing a ministry is something that's only for some people, or that it's something so difficult that we can't wrap our heads around it, like, okay, I can't go to Ghana or someplace in Africa or South America, but there's work right in front of you. If you just look, if we open our hearts and our eyes, there are people who are hurting right in front of us. There are people who need your arm around them, who need you to pray over them, who need you to just listen to them and tell them that they're loved, that Jesus loves them and forgives them and wants a relationship with them. And that takes nobody. It doesn't take any preparation, it doesn't take any education. It just takes a heart for Christ, and that's. God gives us everything that we need.
Speaker 2:Amen, takes the power of the Holy Spirit. It's all His, it's all His work, his advancement. We're just. We're just following and being used as vessels for Him. It's an awesome privilege to call you a friend and be one of your pastors, pat, and this is going to be a fun, fun journey, and your wounds have been offered to others to bring the healing that only comes from the crucified and risen one. His name is Jesus.
Speaker 2:If you're enjoying the Tim Ullman podcast coming out once a week on Wednesdays, please like, subscribe, comment on YouTube or Spotify, itunes, wherever you take it in. Just that, follow wherever you're hitting us up. If you would just follow, that helps get the word out to more and more people looking to have creative, innovative conversations with people within my context, most of the folks, pat, are honestly across the country or world, so we can grow more and more up into Jesus, who is our head, our leader, our Lord, the lover of our souls. It's a good day. Go and make it a great day by the power of the word and spirit. Thanks so much, pat.