The Tim Ahlman Podcast

Good Lord! A Not So Shocking Look at the Goodness of God

• Unite Leadership Collective • Episode 13

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Pastor Jason Schleicher shares insights from his new book "Good Lord: A Not So Shocking Look at the Goodness of God," exploring how we can recognize divine goodness even amid life's struggles and pain.

• God's goodness is visible throughout creation—from breathtaking landscapes to the intricacy of our bodies
• Starting with listening is crucial when people question God's goodness during difficult seasons
• Peter's story demonstrates how God's goodness includes redemption for our failures and shortcomings
• Color reveals God's artistry—from Hawaiian landscapes to everyday beauty that we often overlook
• We are literally "made of light" at our cellular level, reflecting our creator in profound ways
• Encouraging words build relational safety and allow difficult conversations to happen productively
• Rest is essential for experiencing God's goodness—we should work from rest, not work to rest
• Maintaining boundaries and systems helps church leaders balance ministry demands with family needs

Find Jason's book at goodlordbook.com or contact him at jason@goodlordbook.com


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Speaker 1:

I do pray that people that are hurting, that are struggling, can find comfort in God's Word, because it's all over. It's all over the Psalms, it's all over Old Testament, new Testament, that God is good, he is for us, and we won't always see that on this side of heaven, but as long as sin is in this world, we will deal with those struggles and hurts. But we have comfort in a God who overcame those struggles for us as well. We have comfort in a God who overcame those struggles for us as well.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Tim Allman Podcast. Tim Allman, here I pray the joy of Jesus. His love, his affirmation, your identity in Christ and your baptism is fueling you for a life of leadership, learning, partnering with people who are all around you, going on a journey to become more like Jesus, the journey of sanctification by the Holy Spirit's power, all for the sake of those who do not know Jesus. I get to hang out today with a partner in the gospel that I have admired from afar, jason Schleicher. Let me tell you a little bit about Jason.

Speaker 2:

Jason serves at Salem Lutheran Church in Tomball. He and his wife, amy, have been married for over two decades. They love parenting. They're three kids. We have three kids too. Jason and I actually overlapped for three, four years or so at Concordia University, nebraska Go Bulldogs, and he had 14 years as a DCE Director of Christian Education before becoming an ordained pastor in 2019. He loves to lead adult small groups, children's ministries, mission worship. We were just talking before we hit play. He gets to use his director of Christian education skills, but he has now a pastor's heart. He loves working with people of all ages. His favorite aspect of pastoral ministry is the one-on-one conversations, as well as preaching proclamation sharing the gospel he's an avid. We were just hearing it Detroit Lions, you're a Detroit.

Speaker 1:

Lions.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, man, that's a tough, tough one. I'm a Broncos fan and it's been tough for over a decade Sorry about this last year. Avid sports fan, he loves playing board games, card games and he's the new author of a brand new book called Good Lord a not so shocking look at the goodness of God. So that's where we're going to be orienting ourselves today. How are you doing, Jason?

Speaker 1:

Yes, sir, I'm good, Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, man, I've been pumped to hang out with you. Let's hunt the good stuff. What do you say when someone comes up in pastoral ministry, jason, and they're just questioning, it could be they're walking through inevitable struggle, trial, loss, grief, and they question the goodness of God. I mean, this is one of those biggest questions as a theologian, as a pastor, where is God, our good God, in the midst of struggle? Let's start there, jason. What do you say generally, brother, yeah well, he's there.

Speaker 1:

He is there despite the struggles and the hurts and he cares for us. I think somebody asked me when I was in the book writing process I kind of beta tested some of the chapters as a Bible study here at Salem First, and somebody said who's your audience? And I said, well, anybody could read it. But then he said no, that's too general, like who's your audience? And I even said maybe someone that's kind of drifting a little bit from God or questioning whether God is good.

Speaker 1:

I would say to. Well, I wouldn't say anything at first. I would listen, because underneath that is some sort of hurt, some sort of brokenness that they're probably wanting to share but maybe haven't had the opportunity. So I would certainly ask the right questions to try to get them to talk. But then probably the simplest answer I would give is look at the world around you, look at the way God formed your body, look at the creation he has made, look at chocolate and peanut butter together. Like God allowed those things to happen for our good.

Speaker 1:

And that's what the book's about is just looking at the goodness of God in the world around us and in His Word. And I do pray that people that are hurting, that are struggling, can find comfort in God's Word because it's all over. It's all over the Psalms, it's all over Old Testament, new Testament that God is good, he is for us, and we won't always see that on this side of heaven, but as long as sin is in this world, we will deal with those struggles and hurts. But we have comfort in a God who overcame those struggles for us as well.

Speaker 2:

That's so good. I love how you're starting out with kind of a first article reality, nature of who God is. And for those of you who are first article, what in the world? So God is creator, god is father. What is it about peanut butter and chocolate that is so intoxicating? I'm right there with you. You give me some peanut butter, some chocolate, a top of some ice cream. Like that's a guilty pleasure, right there for sure. But yeah, I mean say more about how God reveals himself to us in creation.

Speaker 2:

I like to go just look at our bodies, just look at our minds, right, the heartbeat that I don't do anything to like make my heartbeat and oxygen come into my lungs and my eyes to see and to go out into the world that's filled with, yeah, tough stuff, hard stuff, for sure we recognize it. But beauty and wonder, like technology, that I get to hang out with my friend Jason and go out into the world that's filled with, yeah, tough stuff, hard stuff, for sure we recognize it, but beauty and wonder, like technology, that I get to hang out with my friend Jason and talk about Jesus. Today there's so many good things that I think a lot of times when we're down right Sin is man or woman turned in on themselves, our heads are down, our hearts are down, rather than our eyes up and out. It's not like those of us that are optimists, are unaware of the tragedy, the trials of life, the cruelty, you could say even of life.

Speaker 2:

It's just that we kind of see now, by the Spirit's power, a new way of being, because I've done hundreds of funerals, I've sat and cried in the midst of addiction, in the midst of suicide, in the midst of all the pastoral things that we walk through, and yet I see the goodness of God out in creation and he's calling me, he's calling me out, and this is before we even get to Jesus. There's just this innate understanding that the world is filled with and this is a term we probably don't, but magic Like. There's so many things that are just unbelievable in the world, right, it seems magical, mysterious, it's beautiful. So anything more to say about understanding the goodness of God from a first article perspective there, jason?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for me, I need to go somewhere where there's mountains and a babbling brook. There you go. There is something my family over the last few years have taken vacations to mountains. We've gone to Colorado, we've gone to Great Smoky Mountain National Park, we went up to Acadia National Park last summer. If you give me mountains and a babbling brook, I could sit there for hours pondering God's goodness.

Speaker 1:

But I think what you were saying, how Satan tries to isolate us. He's always lying. That's his native tongue, says the Lord. So if we get sucked into that, it's too easy to look at the not good aspects of even God. You question whether he's good, you're wondering if he's with you. But go for a walk. Recognize that this morning when you woke up, you did not tell your lungs start breathing ready. Go. Our bodies, the people around us, family, friends, your church these are places where God's goodness shines. But you go to his word. You're going to see it over and over again that even though life is tough, life has struggles, god is still faithful. He will pull you through that. One of the chapters in the book talks about mentors. Go find someone that can pull you out when you're in that pit of despair a little bit, and for me it's a babbling brook. I don't need a mentor telling me that Just get me to the mountains and I'll be fine, yeah, amen.

Speaker 2:

That's saying, with mentors and our need, we can't be in the word of God or even think about the things of God on our own. The word of God is meant to be proclaimed right into our ears. We have to hear it from someone else. Every preacher needs a preacher.

Speaker 2:

you may say and maybe that's for church workers, maybe that's one of the struggles because you're pouring out, you're giving, you're giving but you're not receiving. I've got so many different folks. I was telling you about Pastor Michael Hyden, one of our pastors on our team before we get going. I love I don't have to worry about him saying anything goofy or it being awkward or anything like. He's been doing it for a while. I was a pastor during his vicarage year at Bethlehem and now he's become like a friend. So when he preaches or when we go on a walk in the riparian preserve adjacent to our campus here at Gilbert, like it's a friend, he's a mentor, he's an advisor for me and I love talking about Jesus with him. Like that's like some of the best conversations ever. So I really feel.

Speaker 2:

I really feel sad, I guess, for church leaders and just going straight to leadership right who feel alone, like they don't have mentors, prayer partners and teammates every single day. You've served in different contexts some smaller congregations, you know. I mean that's a, that's an easy tendency Give some words of wisdom for the wisdom, for the church leader at a variety of different levels who may feel like they're alone. We need mentors, jason.

Speaker 1:

I would say three things. I agree with you. It's very critical to have somebody physically that you can talk, to go on a walk with, get you out of that space. For many church workers that's difficult to find within their church. I love the team ministry setting that you're saying. I've only served in team ministry and I thank God for the teammates that I've served with because I do feel like I could go to them with a struggle. I could go to them with a problem, but maybe go back to a good college friend or a good high school friend, somebody that doesn't know your church or your people that well, give them a quick call For me.

Speaker 1:

I've also found other church leaders that are not Lutheran, like Max Lucado and Louis Giglio. Those are guys that, whether I'm reading or watching one of their messages, that fills my soul. In the book I talk about the writer of Hebrews. We don't even know who that is, but the writer of Hebrews has been a mentor to me and he doesn't even know it. So I feel like it should be a person, somebody that you could talk to, but you don't have to know the person for them to mentor your faith walk either.

Speaker 1:

The apostle Paul is a great another mentor for us. So those are examples that I've used, but I've also gone to people that I went to college with that don't know anything about my church now, or people that I went to high school with that saw me in a different time of life and just can encourage me, lift me up, remind me hey, you're a good friend and you're going to make it through this and God's got you. So those are some examples I have, but I'm thankful to serve in team ministry, like you, where I do have friends who are coworkers, and that's.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure, you start out the book talking about God is protector. Why did you make that choice?

Speaker 1:

That was not the original choice I had. I started with creation and looking at colors. Where I wrote the majority of the book was on plane rides to and from Hawaii. My wife and I celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary two summers ago and we took a big trip and that was fun. But I don't do well on airplanes so I don't sleep well. I don't read a ton. So I just started writing and that was a lot of fun to do. That was a lot of inspiration for the book on those plane rides.

Speaker 1:

But for me it was an editing thing. So the development editor that I worked with I had the chapters ordered in a different way and she said I think I want you to start with one of your stronger ones, and I'm not naive to think that all of my chapters are equally strong. So I wanted to start strong. I liked some of the stories I told there. I like the dancing between Psalm 31 and Psalm 61 and all those big words like refuge and fortress and strong tower, and well, that's one of the ways we can trust that God is good, because he is protecting us and he's eventually and always protecting us from the evil one and from an eternity apart from God, so that's why I chose to start with that one after the development editor's suggestion.

Speaker 2:

I love that Do you as a congregation and as a leader, do you spend much time talking about kind of spiritual warfare? Because when I think protector, I don't just think of death and sin, especially in this day and age. We're coming out of four weeks of a trauma series. We started in 2025 with a bang as a faith community and then we moved right into a spiritual warfare five-week sermon series that we're just at the tail end of. Are you guys talking about the Ephesians 6,? We don't fight against flesh and blood, but against the powers and principalities of this dark age the liar, the accuser, the counterfeit light bringer, satan. Talk about the protection of the triune God against the forces of darkness in our world. Jason.

Speaker 1:

It feels like that's a topic that churches need to address more. We have done some. I remember I did a sermon series where I often lead the August kind of back to school one and then Tim kicks off more of a fall kickoff in early September and we did one on. Some of the struggle is real, but also we looked at kind of the lies of Satan and how he's trying to get a foothold. So I believe we could talk about that more.

Speaker 1:

I think too many people think the struggle that they're experiencing is something circumstantial or another person. The enemy is not your spouse. The enemy is not your children. The enemy is not your kid's teacher or coach. It's probably Satan getting underneath and pulling at some heartstrings and emotional strings that are causing you and me to feel yuck and to feel upset and angry and sad all at the same time about things that are going to happen in this world. We will experience disappointment. So, yeah, I wish churches would talk about that more. Experience disappointment so, yeah, I wish churches would talk about that more. I'm convicted, as you say that, that we probably need to throw another series in quickly about how we fight against the devil's temptations and his lies, and that is where our struggle is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're proud. We're proud of our Lutheran heritage and Luther. Some of Luther's best stories come in terms of spiritual warfare. I don't know if you've ever heard of this one, but Luther was very vivid, he had a, he had quite the imagination, and he tells one story of being awakened in the in the later nights or early morning and and having and I don't know if he saw Satan or whether it was just a presence of darkness in the room. He's kind of uh, he could be prone toward being frozen with fear.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if you've heard this story and it was later on in his life and he kind of turns over. I picture Luther, probably in his fifties, you know, early fifties, kind of a gruff old, and he looks at Satan and he tells us in his Luther, uh, luther's works, you know, is kind of table talks with some of his students, and then he turns over and he goes, oh, it's just you, and rolls over and goes back to bed, you know. So it's aware, but he's not like crippled in fear, or obviously the early Luther was crippled in fear, the cursing, the crushing weight of the law and Satan's, and agreeing with Satan's lies that he was defined by what he did or failed to do, rather than by the finished work of Jesus. So I think we need to spend more time and it doesn't have to be a sermon series per se, but just reminding people consistently that if you're trying to simply make, as you said, your brother, your sister, your spouse, the government, any kind of person your enemy, you're barking up the wrong tree right, because it is Satan who wants to steal, kill, destroy and divide us, whisper lies into our ears, and we need the powerful work, the word of Jesus, to crush the lies of Satan. And that's exactly what.

Speaker 2:

Let's go to chapter two. You talk about Peter, and Peter had and I love the juxtaposition of Peter's story and Judas's story, though Judas's story is remarkably tragic Peter could have been turned away from, away from Jesus, and yet he jumps in the water and can't wait to get to the risen Jesus, even post, post denial. So what does the story of Peter teach us about the goodness of God there, jason?

Speaker 1:

I refer to Peter in the book as the disciple who often talked before he thought, or he was bold enough to say, probably, what the others were thinking. But what a unique picture of his walking ministry with Jesus, his messing up royally in various situations. I can relate to Peter. I can relate to sometimes speaking without thinking and going man, I wish I wouldn't have said that. So I relate well to him.

Speaker 1:

I love the story of John 21. We're going to preach on the gospel of John all throughout Lent this year and I get to preach that Sunday after Easter. We're going to preach on the gospel of John all throughout Lent this year and I get to preach that Sunday after Easter. We're going to extend the series and so I get to do John 21.

Speaker 1:

That's one of my favorite stories because he is so passionate. That's where I talk about him in the book. But he's jumping into the water as if. What is he going to help row the boat in? Like I don't, I don't know. He just wanted to see Jesus now, and then, I'm sure, the other disciples this is what I've told people in Bible classes and things, because God's word doesn't say but if they're doing all the work to get to the shore. I'm sure eventually one of the other Andrew or somebody was like you go clean up, like you left us to do the work to get here. You can't just go hang out and have breakfast with Jesus. So you go clean up. I love his passion.

Speaker 2:

I do too, and I relate to him just like you do. I love how John is the one. This is a note that I had not looked at. I preached on it maybe two, three months ago or so. No, it was in the trauma series. We looked at Peter's story through his denial, so this was like six weeks ago. So John is the one who tells Peter it's the Lord, there's others in the boat, right. It says there's like six who are there, but he looks directly at Peter and he says it's the Lord and we need people, kind friends like John and I love John's details that he brings out that the other gospels don't necessarily have. But he's like no, I was the one that looked at Peter the denier, you could say the one who abandoned, the one who should have been the closest to Jesus. And yet he's the rock, right, his confession is the rock, and yet Peter needed to get. So I don't throw Peter too far under the bus, because I mean John did it.

Speaker 2:

John was the one that pointed out hey, it's Jesus, and he kind of loses his mind, his fleeing tendency. I think it's an amygdala hijack of Peter. He's not even thinking about anything else, right, he has laser focused on getting to the Lord. How much more do we need friends who say, in the midst of your sin, your struggle, your denial, your disbelief, it's the Lord, here he is in his word, in his table for you. Anything more to say, though, about that amazing story and how we need kind friends that point us to Jesus.

Speaker 1:

Well, jesus was the kind friend of Peter. Jesus turned his life around. Jesus healed his mother-in-law. These are stories that maybe get glossed over, but, yeah, I appreciate his boldness. I love his epistles in the New Testament. I love his perspective. Many people are excited about spending time with grandparents and great-grandparents and family members gone before when they get to heaven. I'd like to spend a day or two with Peter. I just feel like he's got that passion that I desire to have. I want to have that kind of reckless abandon to live my life for the Lord. It's okay when I mess up, but I want to live with that reckless abandon, like Peter.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, and it led him. Peter is a leader. Peter's a hardwired leader. God made him a certain way. He's bold, he can speak when others couldn't speak, but maybe don't speak. I picture the apostles post-Pentecost even because all these people want to hear about, they're talking all in these, you could say small groups and all these different languages, and yet Peter rises up and gives the first sermon that draws people Talk about the fruit of that message 3,000, some people baptized. You know, I think all the apostles, john included, are like. God hardwired this guy to speak. He has the authority. He's a Jew of Jews, in many respects right. I mean, he's a zealot. He understands the scriptures and yet he's very, very bold. He would even lose his life for the Lord.

Speaker 2:

And we need, you know, maybe we can go down this rabbit trail a little bit. I don't think we recognize the unique gifts within the body of Christ, those that are maybe the out front bold leaders and those that are doing more behind the scenes work. It's Paul highlights this like nobody's business, right, and you could say Peter too, calling out the royal priesthood. But all the unique gifts we need the bold out front leader, that's definitely Peter. We need the thoughtful mentor. Not that Paul isn't a courageous proclaimer of the gospel, but I see him as the strategic disciple multiplier. I see John as kind of the heart of the whole thing, the one who's probably close to Mary into her later years. He's a disciple, he's a storyteller, john. So we need all those types of gifts and I think sometimes in the body of Christ we lower certain gifts and elevate other gifts. They're all equal, but we need to encourage. It's like an orchestra, right. We need to encourage each person to play their appropriate part. Anything more to say there, jason?

Speaker 1:

Amen. I think we need the Bartholomews and the James the Lesser just as much as the Peters and the Johns. I love how Paul, at the end of a lot of his letters, will highlight people by name, and the number of women that he lists is phenomenal to me. You don't hear about those people anywhere else, but the way he talks about them shows they were supporting, they were encouraging, they were caring for him when he was in prison. These were people that we don't know anything else about other than Paul name dropped them at the end, saying these people co-labored with me for the cause of Christ.

Speaker 1:

And yeah, there's people that are upfront leaders. There's people that would prefer to be behind the scenes, but we all have a co-laboring for Christ aspect. I love Luther's theology of priesthood of all believers, and that's true in our neighborhoods, that's true in our workplaces, that's true within our own families and extended families, and you don't have to be pastor or church worker or anything to be that. So I'm thankful for that call on our lives and I'm thankful for the Apostle Paul and others calling out some of the people that we would have never heard of.

Speaker 2:

Preach Good stuff, jason, all right, you said your favorite chapter in the book was on colors, chapter five how do? Colors display the goodness of God. That was unique to me. I loved it.

Speaker 1:

Well, maybe not for someone that's super color blind or something, but I just love how our world is unique with different colors. I've always been a fan of orange. That's partly why the book cover has orange on it. And when we went to Hawaii, well, that blue orange the blue and orange of M&Ms are two of my favorite colors. So maybe I'm a closet Broncos fan somehow.

Speaker 1:

But when we went to Hawaii, there was this tree and we saw it all over and it was gorgeous and and I kept seeing these orange buds and I kept taking pictures of them. I'm like that's my new favorite tree, that's my tree. So I just love how God has created animals of different colors. If you look at our eyeballs, they're different colors. I love the different shades of skin. I love different colors of hair. I love that I'm getting a little white on my hair, like color is just fun. And I have a young daughter who's turning eight soon. Well, she still loves to color and that's very relaxing for her. She's kind of crafty, so I love what she comes up with. Color usually makes people smile and that's partly why I like that chapter. I liked the various things I saw in Hawaii. That was my first trip ever over there and some of the colors are more vibrant. The sun sets a little more picturesque there than other places it's extraordinary.

Speaker 2:

Hawaii is unbelievable. It's paradise. We just went to Kauai for our 20th year, just three months ago or so, and it was unreal how the vibrancy. It's a darker green, yes, yes, and then a brighter orange than I think you see in many places here in the 48 states, here in the US and the chickens.

Speaker 1:

Did you see the chickens?

Speaker 2:

The chickens, oh yeah, there's chickens everywhere.

Speaker 1:

You know why that happened? Right, and they're multicolored. I love that.

Speaker 2:

Crazy, crazy, cool chickens. They're just everywhere. Do you know why that happened? No, because of a hurricane back and the chickens just. They got released. And were you in Kauai?

Speaker 1:

That was one island we didn't go to.

Speaker 2:

So there were chickens. There's chickens on other islands. I didn't know if the chickens were just yeah, ok, so they're everywhere. So if you ever go to Hawaii, I got a little tag with a chicken that says underneath the bag tag that says Hawaii. So random people could ask why in the world do you got a chicken? Anyway, yeah, they're colorful chickens absolutely everywhere. Have you ever thought about like the very first thing God did was was create color? Yeah, let there be light. Right, I love, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1:

And go ahead Just the the various aspects of creation. Uh, my wife told me when we were going through the Bible study because remember I told you the first chapter was going to be creation and colors, I had kind of a two word pairing for each chapter. Again, the development editor said that's too much, get it down to one word. But my wife brought up in the Bible class that God used colors the first three days of creation and then he filled those colors days four, five and six. So I love that imagery, that the yellow and the blue and the green. So yeah, colors. God is the masterful artist, he's the painter and we're the product. Like we get to experience it and love it. And I think in the book I just challenge people like next time you're in the grocery store, next time you're at a church with stained glass, like I think we just kind of gloss over these things and the beauty that people can make with color and that our God has made with color is not something to be glossed over.

Speaker 2:

No, no, I'm not. I'm not a scientist by any stretch, so this is playing beyond, beyond my, my pay grade, but I think, like astrophysicists and a lot of their, I guess, hypotheses around the origin of everything and we know who the author is like We'll locate light as, like the primary foundation, it's the building block of all of our cells. Have you, have you heard about this before?

Speaker 1:

I haven't, but I believe it.

Speaker 2:

I could. I could quote some different. I leave it in the show notes actually some different podcasts I've listened to on this. Again, I'm not a scientist, but when you break it all down, every the flashpoint, jesus is literally, and then you and I are literally made of light.

Speaker 2:

Yep, love that we're, we're at our cellular level, we're, we're light bringers. It's unbelievable. So, now that I'm bringing this up, I got to bring up I got to bring up the Shroud of Turin. I've been on a Shroud of Turin kick for. So you got to do the research and I know we're heading into Easter this will probably be out. This is a book called Body of Proof. Not that we believe the word. The word is the biggest body of proof but there's a number of other and the eyewitness reports, a number of other testimonies.

Speaker 2:

Well, the Shroud of Turin is the real shroud of first century Jerusalem. Do you know that scientists have recently documented this?

Speaker 1:

Jason, I've heard little about that, but you probably know way more than me. So keep going, brother.

Speaker 2:

Well, no, the Shroud of Turin. I just want to bring it to the point of light. There's a light point on that shroud, which a shroud, a burial cloth for the Jews, a very thick, well put together, expensive garment. And there's a flashpoint on the top of that shroud that cannot be reduplicated in any sort of scientific experiment. And they believe, and I believe, that it shows the flashpoint of life, resurrected life.

Speaker 2:

Jesus was in the grave. They say about 30 days. It shows rigor mortis had set in. He hadn't even come out of rigor mortis yet. So in the shroud his knees are kind of up. And another interesting point his shoulders have been dislocated because it looks in this shroud. If you look like his arms are really long, it's because they're out of joint. But then this image comes and it's a moment of resurrection. Another crazy point that shows all the marks. A Roman spear in the side is shown, the 50 different marks of the crown of thorns. Not a polite instrument, it was an instrument of torture upon the crucified Jesus. But then the, the biggest interesting cause it's like a. It's a reverse negative, it's a negative impression. So it's like dark. His hair looks dark but in reality, because it's a negative, his hair is white. Jason.

Speaker 2:

Oh wow, it's a fulfillment of scripture like nuts, so this is why the people would look at me like whoa like they had to like, do a double take the dudes on the road to Emmaus like they didn't even recognize him. He looked remarkably different White hair, hair that's white. Anyway, it all took place because of a flashpoint of extreme energy shown through light. That's mind blowing, isn't it, Jason? I love that. Shown through light, that's mind-blowing isn't it, jason?

Speaker 1:

I love it, I love it. And then he calls himself light of the world. He says you also meaning us are light of the world. I love the concept of we get to shine for him in a dark world. I love that concept of light and dark. It takes us back to creation. But that's who he is, that's who he's called us to be and someday we're going to see him face to face and no more shroud, no more veil, no more covering. And yeah, I love that. Even Revelation says there's no need for light there. There's no street lamps needed. There's no because he is the light.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, have you ever thought about the vibrancy of colors that will be present when Jesus comes back, like just breathtaking?

Speaker 1:

I have tried to let my mind go there. I share a little bit about that in the book. I think it's one of the questions I ask at the end, like have you ever imagined the colors of heaven and what would that be like? Because there's some pretty amazing places here on Earth where we get to see color. Hawaii is one of them, but there's others. I'm sure people that have ventured up to see fall colors in the Northeast or I'm sure other places in the world have some pretty amazing colors Awesome. Those are just a glimpse of what we will see. Imagine the palette of our painter God in heaven. Imagine the palette of our painter God in heaven.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure have you. What's the Avatar movie that came out? The blue, the blue guys.

Speaker 1:

Remember this movie? Yeah, I just know the ride at Disney world. I don't know much about the movie, but so that's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2:

That ride it's at the animal kingdom in Orlando. It is the closest experience to the new heaven and new earth I've ever had. Right, right, because you're in this little. You're in this little like, uh, motorcycle thing we're kind of like banshee riding a banshee and stuff and the colors that disney brought out in that ride are the closest thing to, I think, the new heaven and new earth that I've ever experienced. I was like you ever get those like holy spirit, like just the awe and wonder.

Speaker 1:

That's how I experience Breathtaking.

Speaker 2:

Breathtaking, exactly so, so good. Well, this has been. We got a couple more questions. I'm so pumped. I love talking colors with you. I don't think I've ever talked colors with that kind of depth with anyone in my life, so that was cool. Thanks for bringing that out. Let's pivot to talking and the power of words to point us to the goodness of God, and when I think words, I think of people need. If you got a heartbeat, life is discouraging. If you got a heartbeat, you need encouragement. So just talk about the power of words to shape the human heart and to point us to the goodness of Jesus.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, words matter. I love animals, I love inanimate objects in our world that God has made, but they can't speak to us, they can't encourage our heart and mind. So the story I tell from scripture is Job's friends who have every intention of coming to care for him, to sympathize with him, to comfort him, and they don't talk to him for seven days and seven nights. And what a missed opportunity. And then, when they do start talking to him, they're ripping on him, they're saying it's your fault, man, you did something wrong.

Speaker 1:

So we have a unique opportunity to use words to build up, not tear down. And we live in a tear down world. We live in a elevate self. Tear down. Others judge everything. You see, every picture, every post, every person. Well, I love the fact that God has given us tongues and vocal boxes that can use words that build up and encourage, and we're called to do that. It's a gift from God that we can speak. So let's use our words to build up, not tear down. God that we can speak, so let's use our words to build up, not tear down.

Speaker 2:

What is it connected to our fallen human nature, jason, that there's something in me it's not the Holy Spirit this counter force that we could say it's satanic, demonic that wants to look at other people and either compare myself as better than, or put myself down as worse than, or put the worst construction on other people's action and the best construction on my intention. It's like there's this counterforce in me and I would say everyone, if you're quite honest, that is at war with the real me in Jesus. That needs to be, shall we say, crucified with Christ day by day, so that I notice things and I want to speak them. One of our biggest highlights as a team.

Speaker 2:

If I could pray for one thing for staff teams, and whether it's you as a pastor of a small church with your elders, whatever go on retreat at least a couple times a year. We do it quarterly, go have food, fellowship, but then encouragement. We start off every staff retreat with basically something like this I praise Jesus that you're on the team, because dot, dot, dot and you could. There's no shortage of ways we can kind of set people up to speak words of encouragement and every single time we do that, there are people that start crying because of joy that people recognize them, you know, we don't hear it enough.

Speaker 2:

We don't hear it enough. People light up. It's like the little kid we think that you want. Everybody wants to encourage a little five-year-old little Tommy or Timmy or whatever you know. Look at that cute little guy going to do his thing. We grew up. The 55-year-old needs encouragement and love, you know, and recognition that somebody actually sees what they're doing and what you're doing is actually making a difference.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes I'm going to go and this isn't a political podcast that Tim and I try to stay out of the LCMS culture. You and I are both in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, but sometimes I wonder like is our, all of our meetings at every level in our synod starting out with words of love and care and respect for one another scene? What would it, what would it look like if every district president I know this is hard If every district president, all of our unique context, started out with a small group of other district presidents in their region or whatever, saying I'm so grateful. We may disagree on a couple of things, whatever we're working it out, but I'm so grateful I see your district working toward this end. That would be a uniting force. Encouragement brings courage and it unites.

Speaker 1:

So let's start out with way more encouraging conversations Go ahead. Go ahead, Jason. People would be flocking to our churches if that's how churches and leaders acted towards one another. So yeah, I feel like those activities where you speak words is amazing. I've also done them. Where you write them, you know everybody's name is on a piece of paper.

Speaker 1:

People will keep those for a long, long time, because sometimes on our worst of days, we just need to be reminded somebody believes in me, somebody cares in me, somebody sees something in me that I can't see in myself right now. So, yeah, I'm with you that I'm a big fan of starting meetings or gatherings with. Hey, give me some joy, tell me something amazing, not about me, not about, but just. Let's share positive, let's use words that build, and I'm with you. I think lots of people would be very attracted to that and would feel built up, not just on the defensive, like how can I battle today against these people? Nope, we're on the same team.

Speaker 2:

Facts. Well, what it does, jason, is it moves us. If you enter into conversation and you accuse, condemn, divide, it immediately moves a human brain to fight or flight or freeze or fawn right. So the best way to get us to using our strategic prefrontal cortex to work through inevitable struggles is to start with encouragement, because then in our staff retreats we're always talking about stuff that could be improved. We're never. We're never there, right. So? But the foundation is love and care.

Speaker 2:

As we talk about the struggle, I know I just heard that leader give me words of encouragement. So, as we talk about this and maybe in my department or something that I'm kind of responsible for and I may have, I may be prone toward guilt or shame, no, no, no, we're just going to talk about it. We're all going to put our heads together, our hearts together, to work toward that thing. It it removes the stigma like you're, you're bad. Human beings at their base want to know am I seen, am I loved, am I known, am I cared for? And is this a safe? You talk about protection. Is this a safe place for us to talk about difficult things? That is the leader's number one responsibility. It's to create, you could say relational safety, so that inevitable things that are difficult can be discussed and not torn, tearing us apart, becoming more fractured in all of our different conversations. I just get pumped even talking about this right now, because encouragement is the fuel for mission. Anything more to say on that, jason?

Speaker 1:

Well, god's word says speak the truth in love. So it doesn't just say speak the truth and it doesn't just say speak love all the time. There has to be the balance. But I love that concept of relational capital. You earn the right to be able to talk about the hard things with people when you've shown them, but I still value you, I care for you, and not just, but I still. You've started with that. You've laid a different foundation to be able to say and now how can we grow and how can we do it together? Because, remember, I still value you, believe in you, think you're an amazing, gifted person in that role. So, yeah, let's lay a different foundation that doesn't spin our heads around into that fight or flight. I love that. Maybe you should write a book, tim. I love that. Maybe you should write a book, tim.

Speaker 2:

That's what I think, Jason. No.

Speaker 1:

Well, you already wrote it, you already wrote it and obviously it's written down.

Speaker 2:

It's the word of God, it's God. You have every reason to be in despair, nihilistic, hedonistic, et cetera, and yet the God of the universe has called you by name, right? He said this is my beloved son or daughter and you. I am well pleased, just like he gave. If Jesus needed encouragement from the father, how much more so do we need encouragement? So it is the fuel for our mission. And I just got to say this Jason, you're an awesome human. I know you're a pastor, whatever.

Speaker 2:

You're just a delightful human. This has been so fun. Last question, though what is the role of rest? Chapter 10, you talk about rest and understanding the goodness of God you talk about rest and understanding the goodness of God.

Speaker 1:

Well, I don't know how many seasons in your life you've had where you can tell you're under rested right. There's just not enough going. Just this past week we were working on a Lenten devotion book that our staff creates and I was up way too late editing those way too late in the night and I just wasn't myself. I wasn't sharp the next day. Man, god gave us a body.

Speaker 1:

That's pretty amazing, but it does have to shut down a little bit at nighttime or if you're working nights during the day, that's a beautiful thing. But then I couple that with it's not just sleep more, it's turn your mind back to the Lord. Don't just focus so much on tasks and then rest in him. Come to me all you who are weary and burdened. That's a verse I use, but then I also connect it to Jesus calling the disciples away. Come by yourselves with me for a little while so that we can rest, and then they feed the 5,000. Like they didn't get a lot of rest, but Jesus knew they needed it and he needed it. He went off by himself to pray, sometimes early in the morning, but he slept. So did the disciples.

Speaker 1:

So for me it's probably a combination of how's your sleeping going and are you resting in the Lord? Are you spending intentional time praying, reading his word being filled up. Worship music's big for me, just soaking in God's presence and can you put the other worries and daily work tasks aside for just a little bit to just rest in who he is, in his promises, and someday we're going to rest for all eternity with him. And that's the premise of the book. Man, he's good. He's given us lots of things that we can look around our world and go. Man, god's good, and it's not very shocking. So I'm just trying to redeem the phrase. Let's use the phrase in a different way. How?

Speaker 2:

to redeem the phrase. Let's use the phrase in a different way. We work from rest, right. And if we go the other way around we work to rest, we're not going to be, we're going to be taxed and it's going to be hard and we're going to burn out eventually. And I would say one other thing. I think sometimes our systems this is a podcast of Unite Leadership Collective Maybe sometimes our systems for work and I would, managing our work, managing our tasks need to get addressed. So I'm a strong fan. If you're not using planning center task manager, we use Asana as a task manager. The tasks are always going to be there. I have hundreds of tasks that are for tomorrow or a week from now.

Speaker 2:

I think Jesus, especially with the chaotic, pinging world that we live in constant distractions social media you know we're always getting prone to always being on. I think Jesus would say you need a good task management system, son. I don't know. I think he would. I think the Holy Spirit would tell us today, with all the distractions, like you need to have a day, you need to have a rhythm, you need to have a way, you need to invite other people into your task, because this is too heavy. This is too heavy for you. You're not meant to be that on all the time People have asked me. I was just at the seminary alumni basketball game, which was super, super fun. Jason had a really great-.

Speaker 1:

Did you dunk? That's the question, Tim. Did you dunk?

Speaker 2:

I'm six foot dude and I have a 10-. I saw you play football.

Speaker 1:

I know you're an athlete. I'm a 10-inch vert right now.

Speaker 2:

man Back in the day I could come close, I could dunk a volley. My hands are small. I could dunk a volleyball back in the day, but not today, that's for sure. I keep my feet firmly on the ground because I don't want to roll an ankle or pull something goofy. It's pretty funny some students afterwards and they kind of ask the question you know, how do you have time to do podcasts and do things like this? It's because I've asked for a lot of help and I have a system to get things done at the appropriate time.

Speaker 2:

Each day has enough things to do, you know, and for me in this season, just kind of behind the scenes a little bit, my helper Dawn, she partners with me and she cares for me and is like analyzing rhythms of work and rest and play and family, and here's something for me that's huge. I'd get your take. You got kids, like the kids schedules, all their different things, right, that has to go on my calendar first before anything else, and if anything else was put on the calendar before their athletic stuff or whatever their events and stuff like, I don't get that time back. So I got to, I have to be there and I also have time to coach high school football and things. It's just there's been a discipline that's been established over time, and it has to do with systems that have been set up so that I can work from rest, not work to rest. Anything more to say there, jason.

Speaker 1:

The hardest part, I think, of ministry is that it's never done right. Ministry is not a task that you can check off and there's always more work today, tomorrow and into the future. So I'm with you. I have tried very hard to create boundaries where I know I will be a more effective leader for Jesus if my marriage is good and my kids know that I am present and love them. That doesn't mean I'm going to be at everything. But, man, I'm going to try, because I could still do more work later in the night when they go to bed. I can still find a way to do some tasks on my day off.

Speaker 1:

But I love how you said you're not going to get that time back. So there's got to be balance in that. It can't be. Forget my job. I'm only a family guy. Well then, you shouldn't be paid. But we got to find the balance. So I I love that. Uh, god calls us to rest, god calls us to find rhythms and let's figure out how to do that where there's a little balance between family and work, especially if we're in ministry together. That where there's a little balance between family and work, especially if we're in ministry together. But it's a tough thing when ministry is never done and there's always more needs. So I'm in that struggle with you and trying to figure it out, but I'm also trying to care for my family, my wife and my own body as well, because you know what? We're not getting younger Tim. These things are true, very true. How old are your kids? I have twin boys that turned 13 in a couple months. They're in seventh grade, and then my daughter turns eight this week. She's in second grade.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's kind of a sweet spot. I got three in high school.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're. You're in a different stage than me. My kids love being home, and I know that might change someday, but they would prefer to be home and you drive them to school. I drive them to school. Our school is right on campus here, so I get that sweet time with them and then, depending on practices and whatnot, one of us is driving them home.

Speaker 2:

That's so cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I enjoy it.

Speaker 2:

I don't drive anybody to school anymore. Last year my daughter goes are you going to miss me as you go into? I was like, well, yeah, I've really enjoyed these, these sweet times with her. And uh, are you, are you able to get good time to take care of yourself to start the morning?

Speaker 1:

So I'm a late night owl, so I'm mostly caring for my kids and making sure I get a shower in the morning, so to me, the time that I can have for myself is more after they go to bed or connecting with my wife or whatever. So I need to do a little more exercise than I do. I feel like I'm in decent physical health, but I had back surgery around Thanksgiving time, so I'm trying to figure out what life is like in my 40s now, now that body parts aren't quite doing what I wish they would when they were 25 or whatever did you have like a spinal thing or something like?

Speaker 1:

uh, it was a discectomy, so they took out a portion of my disc because it was all on top of my nerves and causing all sorts of issues like lower lower back. Yes, sir, I played a lot of sports growing up and I think I've even played a lot of sports in my adulthood and probably think that I was 22 again and I'm just not. So I think my days of playing tons and tons of sports are over, but it's okay. Did the surgery help alleviate? Oh, yeah, yeah, it's huge. It was well done and I'm thankful I had it.

Speaker 2:

Praise Jesus, that's amazing. My goal is to never go under the knife, and I say that having had my appendix removed, which is a funny little thing. I think that little guy does something. I don't know exactly what it does, but I had that removed, we'll see. I'll probably go under the knife sometime in my life, like like you did. It's amazing that we got doctors and nurses that can take care of us when our bodies break down, to elongate health and, uh, vitality. That's, that's beautiful, bro.

Speaker 2:

So, this has been, this has been great. Uh, I will say one thing. The Holy spirit put this on my heart. I don't know if it was the Holy period or just my goofy brain, but yeah, physical, the more we can, the more we can do some sort of resistance training. The older we get, the sharper we're going to be mentally.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love that it used to be crossword puzzles. What's that? It used to be crossword puzzles was the way to keep your mind sharp. But I'm with you. Let's, let's do some resistance stuff.

Speaker 2:

Let's go for walks, let's, let's do some walks, do air squats air lunges.

Speaker 2:

I like scissor squats, which is a little bit more intense. I got a whole regimen that I do when I'm in hotels and things, and it's mostly plyometric body, but I my goal physically is a sweat every single day. So, um, yeah, whatever it takes to get some sort of a sweat on, uh, that's good, good for my brain. Well, this has been awesome. You need to pick up. Listener of the Book Good Lord, the not so shocking look at the goodness of God by Pastor Jason Schleicher, your friend and ambassador of Christ, carrying his love and his light out into the world.

Speaker 1:

So people can find this Amazon anywhere books are sold and his light out into the world so people can find this Amazon anywhere books are sold. I don't know if it's on Amazon yet, but probably the best way is through this website that I created, goodlordbookcom, and if they have questions it's jasonatgoodlordbookcom, so I would love to connect with people there.

Speaker 2:

There you go. It's a good day. Go make it a great day. Please like, subscribe, comment wherever it is you're taking in these podcasts I hope this podcast. I have Jesus joy juice flowing through me right now Just getting to talk to you, man. This was so much fun and the Lord is out. Here's your invitation listener, encourage someone today, speak words of love and life over them. Let them know the goodness of God in your words today. It's a good day. Go make it a great day. You're the man, jason. Thanks bud.

Speaker 1:

Thanks Tim.